They want to kill me
Dear friends,
This has become truly serious. It’s one thing when people constantly bash you and slander you for your religious beliefs, but another when they actually say your life will end this year because of your religious beliefs. They said clearly I will die this year. What is amazing is others stand by and watch. This is what Dorje Shugden practitioners have been tolerating since the ban started in 1996. People say there is no ban. But if there is no ban why all the hatred? The Tibetan leadership (CTA) should do something about all of this as this was started by them. All genuine spiritual practitioners of any denomination and background should never allow any threats of violence and death to anyone. This is serious. Religious freedom is everyone’s birthright.
Tsem Rinpoche
A Letter From Datuk May Phng
President of Kechara House
Dear Concerned Parties,
I was recently made aware of postings on the Internet regarding our Spiritual Guide, H.E. Tsem Rinpoche. Since the practice of Dorje Shugden was made available to the public, we have received many comments about it. Most of the feedback and comments have been positive, but there are also critics, which is to be expected. However, what is unacceptable is that the tone of criticism recently has become violent and life threatening.
Some of these hostile comments have been made by people who were previously involved with Kechara as staff, volunteers, and online followers who have been direct recipients of Rinpoche’s kindness; others by those who have no connection with Kechara at all. Their threatening remarks are of grave concern due to their repeated insistence that Tsem Rinpoche will be killed for his beliefs. Their conduct constitutes planning for violence and harm against Rinpoche. More significantly, their conviction leads me to believe that they have pre-meditated and inside knowledge about actions that will be taken against Rinpoche just because he practices Dorje Shugden. Otherwise, how else do they know that Rinpoche will not live to see the end of this year? How can they be so specific about the timeline?
These statements about inflicting harm and threatening Tsem Rinpoche’s life because of his practice can only arise from two sources: 1) inside information that these people are privy to and; 2) their observation of events surrounding the Dorje Shugden issue. There is already evidence of harm and violence against Dorje Shugden practitioners worldwide which compels me to believe their threats are real and forthcoming.
On the Internet, vulgar remarks are directed on a daily basis towards Dorje Shugden practitioners, some of which have been recorded here: https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/dorje-shugden/will-the-dalai-lama-agree-with-this.html
In Tibetan Buddhist communities, it is prevalent that if you practice Dorje Shugden, you will be ostracized, marginalized and bullied; in fact some have been physically harmed, beaten or even killed. There are riots against Dorje Shugden practitioners, allegedly instigated and organized by anti-Shugden groups. Many lamas have witnessed their homes ruined by culprits who throw rocks and other destructive objects. The threats and violence escalated to such heights that H.H. Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche was evacuated from Gaden Shartse Monastery to a safe haven in Europe.
In addition to this, other eminent teachers have allegedly died under suspicious circumstances; some of poisoning and others of car “accidents”. Most recently, an 84-year-old monk of Trijang Ladrang was brutally attacked, allegedly because he practices Dorje Shugden. Do ask yourselves this – what can a defenseless 84-year-old monk possibly do to deserve such violence inflicted upon him by five masked men with knives at 4am?
Therefore, it is evident to me that the people who are threatening Tsem Rinpoche’s life are adamant to see it through, and their continued persistence makes it very clear that they are. I am also certain that these threats arise only because of Rinpoche’s practice of Dorje Shugden because prior to this, there have been no threats on his life. Just imagine, in today’s modern world, that someone’s life is threatened and reputation slandered just because they practice Dorje Shugden. What kind of religious freedom is this if you are free to practice but threatened, degraded and spat upon if you do?
Statements which have been posted on Facebook such as “If he keeps this up, his days in this incarnation will be numbered” and “In fact, if he’s not careful, he may not live to see the end of the year” are clear threats not to be taken lightly. In fact, anyone who participates in these discussions on social media are encouraging the threats, while members of such hostile groups who remain silent are in effect condoning these threats by saying nothing. They are as guilty and complicit of any harm which comes to Tsem Rinpoche. Such individuals and groups will be held accountable for inciting and provoking any threatening actions, either directly or indirectly, which befalls Rinpoche.
This is further evidence of how much abuse, slander and threats Dorje Shugden practitioners have to tolerate on a day to day basis. It is pure religious discrimination. This is getting very serious and beyond just Internet bashing or slandering. A human life is being taken very lightly and threatened.
All statements which have been posted by individuals and groups are recorded for my further actions. As the President of Kechara House I will see to it that all measures are taken to protect our Spiritual Guide. The Board of Directors and I, together with all dedicated students and friends of Tsem Rinpoche, will exhaust every available and lawful means to ensure Rinpoche’s life is protected at all times.
We live in Malaysia where diversity co-exists harmoniously. Citizens are allowed the freedom of religion and choice without ridicule. Nobody should be threatened with death for their beliefs and it is absolute that Rinpoche’s life is being threatened because he practices Dorje Shugden. It is no longer religious action when you talk about and wish someone’s death because of their faith, but prejudice and intolerance. And, to remain silent is to be complicit. Where is the compassion? Is there human decency and mutual respect in these comments? It is my request that, with this serious situation at hand, for all to remain ever vigilant for further threatening comments, statements and actions towards H.E. Tsem Rinpoche.
Datuk May Phng (DMSM)
President of Kechara House
Board of Directors
For any queries, please contact: datukmay@kechara.com
This monk is pleased with the death threats and is encouraging her to talk more.
This is a comment that was left on my Facebook. The person is SURPRISED that I’m still alive just because I practise Dorje Shugden. This means that the threat IS very real and that people have definitely been killed for their practice. Is this religious freedom and democracy? What kind of religious freedom is there when someone risks death because of their beliefs?
Here is another comment that was left on my Facebook, this time left privately. The person say that my “days are numbered”. So to say that death threats are exaggerated is false because I am regularly sent these types of violent threats and comments. Making a remark or commenting about someone’s life or lifespan is not a joke and should not be taken lightly.
Important: https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/?p=58841
For more interesting information:
- This so-called ‘Rinpoche’ wants to send Tsem Rinpoche to hell
- This Nun Wishes for Tsem Rinpoche’s Death
- Will the Dalai Lama Agree With This?
- They were not wrong
- The Dorje Shugden category on my blog
- Main Assistants of the Dharma King
- Largest Dorje Shugden in the world
- Who is Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen?
- Dorje Shugden Teaching Videos
- Dorje Shugden: My side of the story (多杰雄登：我这方面的说法)
- To Sum It Up
- Appeal to H.H. the Dalai Lama
- The 14th Dalai Lama’s prayer to Dorje Shugden
- Dorje Shugden people
- This happened in the USA
- Can Tibetan Lamas Make Mistakes?
- Very special thoughts to share
- I can speak up now about Shugden
- I pray to what I want to
- Why Hide and Attack A Monk?
- I will not be pulled into conflict
- What He Can Help Us
- The Passing of a Great Master: Kensur Konchok Tsering Rinpoche
Please support us so that we can continue to bring you more Dharma:
If you are in the United States, please note that your offerings and contributions are tax deductible. ~ the tsemrinpoche.com blog team
The point that is hard to accept is that so many people started to wish for this mans death & then he did die. So it seems that its not Dorje Shugden who is demon possessed but these people who are campaigning for monks and nuns to die.
How can anyone who develops joy at the thought of a Buddhist burning in hell claim to know what a demon is? Thats the definition of a demon. Someone who delights in torture being dished out. Yet in all the religions zealots celebrate the hells & yearn for people to be sent there whilst claiming to be pure.
You have half the sangha drolling at the thought of people buring in hell & you have the other half dpressed and unable to enjoy spiritual practice. This ban has ruined Buddhism for everyone affected by it.
This world needs Buddhism more than every but if what we have is monks and nuns who use black magics and celebrate torture then how will the Gelugpa survive into the next century. The only hope is unity. In 1958 there was no arguing about this. It used to be like Mahakala Kalarupa etc. People chose their practice and everyone was friends but doing the practice of their choice.
The real reason that the Dalai Lama was in conflict with Shugden is that he could not control what the oracle said. When the oracle said the opposite of the Dalai Lama people wondered which one of them made a mistake. This is why the Dalai Lama took Nechung as his new oracle. Because he can say that Nechung makes mistakes.
Following Nechung has not achieved anything. The truth is that the Chinese people needed Buddhism. Shugden told the Dalai Lama to not see China as his enemy. This is when he decided Shugden was a Chinese spirit. But the Dalai Lama should think now what he achieved by hating China & figthing them.
If he has converted China to Buddhism the whole world would have been affected. It might even have prevented a world war.. Yes it could have been the Dalai Lama stopping world war 3 and the whole world seeing Gelugpa is stopping world war 3. But instead he refused to do anything except shun them and try to incite the west to attack them.
He should rethink now. If he had worked with China, the Tibet that is there could have bcome his Tibet and there would be able to be a lot more space for monasteries than squashed in a small space in India.
China is evil. But he could have changed that if he hadnt been so quick to dismiss Dorje Shugden. It would also have kept Tibetansangha united not as a shism.
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Thank you Rinpoche and Datuk May for sharing this article. Reading this post again , all I could say is disgusting to know what were said without further investigation and thoughts if its true. Since the banning of Dorje Shugden practice, many non-practitioners and practitioners had suffered abuse, slander, threats and discrimination by those anti Dorje Shugden practitioners. Sad….. Just because one dislike one’s religion , the other suffered. They even to that extend encouraging their people to attack Shugden practitioners. One such example where an 84-year-old monk of Trijang Ladrang was brutally attacked, allegedly just because he practices Dorje Shugden. Discriminate people base on their religion is definitely against religious freedom and democracy.
Rinpoche have done so much to benefit so many people through his teachings ,advices and so forth. Yet those people out there still threatened Rinpoche without verify the truth.
Thank you Rinpoche and Datuk May for writing and sharing this article.
Mantras are sacred verbalized words that invoke the protection and blessings of the deity to whom the mantra is ascribed. Mantras are also the manifestations of Buddhas in the form of ‘sounds’, hence the various mantras of Dorje Shugden contain the essence of the Protector.
Dorje Shugden’s main mantra 多杰雄登主要咒语
OM BENZA WIKI BITANA SOHA
Dorje Shugden’s mantra for peace 平和咒语
For gaining attainments through the energy of Peaceful Shugden, peace of environment and mind, harmony in one’s abode and dwelling area, and calming of disasters
OM BENZA WIKI BITANA SHANTI SIDDHI HUNG
Dorje Shugden’s mantra for health 福寿安康咒语
For long life, increasing life, healing of disease and protection from diseases
OM BENZA WIKI BITANA AYU SIDDHI HUNG
Dorje Shugden’s mantra for increase 增长咒语
For gaining great merits and increase of all necessary needs, both material and spiritual
OM BENZA WIKI BITANA PUNYE SIDDHI HUNG
Dorje Shugden’s mantra for control 控制咒语
Of worldly deities, negative people and nagas and for influencing friends towards the positive
OM BENZA WIKI BITANA WASHAM KURU HO
Dorje Shugden’s mantra to grant protection 庇护咒语
Visualize that you are in the Protector’s mandala, fully protected from outside interferences. Recite when in danger or for dangerous situations, for protection while travelling or when residing in dangerous/hostile places
OM BENZA WIKI BITANA RAKYA RAKYA HUNG
https://video.tsemtulku.com/videouploads/comment-1544345059.mp4
Dear friends,
Tibet has produced many powerful meditations, rituals and guidelines to help us gain spiritual protection, gain wisdom and higher states of consciousness. In general Tibet has produced many powerful methods for the growth of our spiritual evolution. Dorje Shugden is an angel, a saint, a powerful spiritual protector-warrior who originated 350 years ago when a highly awakened Tibetan Lama fulfilled his vows to become a special being to grant protection, wisdom, material needs, safety when travelling (normal and astral travel) and spiritual awakening. Both the Great 5th Dalai Lama and the current His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama composed short yet effective prayers to invoke upon the power and blessings of this special saint and protector. One can recite either one of the prayers that you feel suits you, anytime or even daily. When you feel a special need for help, you can recite either prayer anytime. When you are feeling down, afraid or just need a blessing, you can recite them. After reciting either invocation, it is good to chant the mantra of Dorje Shugden: Om Benza Wiki Bitana Soha.
You do not have to be a Buddhist or practitioner of any religion to invoke upon the blessings and protection of this special enlightened and awakened angel Dorje Shugden. He helps all without discrimination or bias as he is filled with compassion and love. Divinity has no boundaries, they help all who call upon them.
Enclosed are the prayers in English, Chinese and Tibetan.
May you be safe, protected and blessed.
Tsem Rinpoche
More on the Great 5th Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden – https://bit.ly/2w7KHv6
More on H.H. the 14th Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden – https://bit.ly/2QdaL4n
Chapel (Trode Khangsar) built by the Great 5th Dalai Lama dedicated to Dorje Shugden in Lhasa – https://bit.ly/2zBTd8M
—
亲爱的朋友们，
西藏产生了许多有助于我们得到精神庇佑、取得智慧和更高层次之觉悟的强大禅修法、仪式和教诲。总括来说，西藏产生了许多有助于我们在修行上取得提升的强有力方法。多杰雄登是一个天使，一位圣人和一名护法战士。他的崛起始于350年前，当一位高度觉悟的西藏高僧履行本身的承诺，化身为特别的护法，赐予我们守护、智慧、物质需要、出入平安（平日外游和神游时）和灵修上的觉醒。任何人都可以随时随地在任何时候念诵适合自己的祈愿文。当你需要特别的帮助时，你可以随时念诵任何一篇祈愿文。当你感到沮丧、恐惧或仅是需要加持时，你也可以持诵这些祈愿文。在念诵任何祈请文后，你应该接着念诵多杰雄登的心咒：嗡 班杂 维格 毗札那 娑哈 Om Benza Wiki Bitana Soha。
要祈请多杰雄登这位特殊、觉悟和觉醒的天使赐予加持和庇佑，你无需是佛教徒或任何宗教的修行者。他总是没有分别或偏见，充满慈悲和慈爱地帮助一切众生。神圣是没有界限的，圣者会帮助有求于他的任何人。
以下附上英文、中文和藏文的祈愿文。
愿你平安，常受庇护和加持。
尊贵的詹杜固仁波切
更多关于第五世达赖尊者和多杰雄登护法的内容 — https://bit.ly/2zsC3tG
更多关于第十四世达赖尊者和多杰雄登护法的内容 — https://bit.ly/2r4aaDN
第五世达赖尊者为多杰雄登护法在拉萨建造的护法殿（布旦康萨）— https://bit.ly/2zBTd8M
Divination (‘mo’) Text by Dorje Shugden
This is an important divination (‘mo’) text composed by Dorje Shugden himself. Dorje Shugden took trance of the Choyang Dulzin oracle lama, the senior oracle of Gaden Shartse Monastery, and instantly on the spot composed this text within two hours.
The divination text contains information on how to use dice to do divination for the future and is known to be highly accurate. When practitioners use this text, they will be in direct contact with Dorje Shugden to get answers to questions about the future. It is for those who have good samaya with Dorje Shugden and are free of the eight worldly dharmas to be of benefit to others in divining the future.
Tsem Rinpoche
DS-MO-choyang.pdf
Be blessed with these rare videos featuring explanation and advice about Dorje Shugden practice by His Holiness Kyabje Zong Rinpoche in his own voice. The teaching was requested by Geshe Tsultrim Gyeltsen, one of the earliest masters who taught Tibetan Buddhism in the West.
Video 1: H.H. Kyabje Zong Rinpoche Explains Dorje Shugden Initiation and Benefits (With English Subtitles)
Kyabje Zong Rinpoche was an erudite scholar, ritual master and practitioner of the highest degree from Tibet. At the request of Geshe Tsultrim Gyeltsen, one of the pioneers who taught Tibetan Buddhism in America, Kyabje Zong Rinpoche gives clear explanation and advice about the life-entrustment initiation of Dorje Shugden and how to go about the practice and get the maximum benefits in this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzFMvlxAqtc&feature=youtu.be
Video 2: H.H. Kyabje Zong Rinpoche speaks on the History and Lineage of Dorje Shugden (With English Subtitles)
In this video, an erudite scholar, ritual master and practitioner of the highest degree from Tibet, Kyabje Zong Rinpoche talks about the incarnation lineage of Dorje Shugden and how the practice arose, with examples of Dorje Shugden’s previous lives that reveal his powerful spiritual attainments and contributions. This very rare teaching was given at the request of Kyabje Zong Rinpoche’s student, Geshe Tsultrim Gyeltsen, one of the pioneers who taught Buddhism in the West to many disciples since the 1970s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIzKSJgK618&feature=youtu.be
For more information: https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/great-lamas-masters/kyabje-zong-rinpoches-advice-on-dorje-shugdens-practice.html
His Holiness the 10th Panchen Lama
Tibetans commonly refer to His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama and His Holiness 10th Panchen Lama as the “sun and moon” of Tibetan Buddhism. They are the center of Tibetan Buddhist civilization, which draws to its sphere of influence millions of non-Tibetan practitioners. The Panchen Lama’s incarnation line began with the 16th abbot of Tashi Lhunpo Monastery, Lobsang Chokyi Gyeltsen (1570 – 1662). He was bestowed the title of Panchen Lama by His Holiness the 5th Dalai Lama after being declared as an emanation of Amitabha.
After being given the title, his three previous incarnations were posthumously also bestowed the title, making Lobsang Chokyi Gyeltsen the 4th Panchen Lama. He became a teacher to many Tibetans, Bhutanese and Mongolian religious figures, including His Holiness the 4th and 5th Dalai Lamas, and the 1st Jetsun Dampa of Mongolia. A prolific author, Chokyi Gyeltsen is credited with over a hundred compositions, including a number of commentaries and ritual texts that remain central in the Gelukpa tradition today. Along with his role as a teacher of the Dharma, the Panchen Lamas are usually responsible for the recognition of the rebirths of the Dalai Lamas, and vice versa.
The 10th Panchen Lama, Lobsang Trinley Lhundrub Chokyi Gyeltsen (19 February 1938 – 28 January 1989) continued both the spiritual and political roles of his predecessors. His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama, his contemporary, was even heard to say and echo the Panchen Lama’s own words that the Dalai Lama would safeguard Tibet from the outside while the Panchen Lama would safeguard Tibet from the inside, as he never left Tibet after the political troubles of 1959. He was truly loved by the Tibetans, all the way until his passing. When he taught, thousands of people would attend, not only from his own Gelug lineage, but masters and practitioners from all traditions of Tibetan Buddhism.
At his sprawling monastery of Tashi Lhunpo, he has a special chapel specifically dedicated to Dorje Shugden, where prayers and rituals are performed on a daily basis. In his great omniscience the Panchen Lama held Dorje Shugden as the principal Dharma protector of the monastery. He also personally propitiated Dorje Shugden among other Dharma protectors, and even wrote extensive prayers and rituals to Dorje Shugden. These rituals and prayers are contained within his ‘sung bum’ or collected works, which are provided here. As such a great lama, with an erudite and clear understanding of the Buddhist scriptures, a teacher to millions in both Tibet and China, from an established incarnation line and an emanation of the Buddha Amitabha, he could not be mistaken about his practice of Dorje Shugden.
His Holiness 10th Panchen Lama is known for his composition of commentaries and practice texts that are still in use by contemporary Buddhist practitioners both in Tibet and across the world. One of these is a powerful ritual composition propitiating the compassionate Dorje Shugden.
Upon the request by Acharya Lobsang Jangchub to compose a shorter version of the prayer (sadhana) for the exhortation of activities of Dorje Shugden, Panchen Lama immediately composed an abbreviate form of Dorje Shugden’s Kangsol. This text is entitled “Manjunatha’s (Tsongkapa) Lineage protector Dorje Shugden and five forms wrathful propitiations and confessional prayers and fulfilment of activities rites” or “Melodious sound of Accomplishment of the Four Activities” for short. Once the prayers were completed, he had signs and strong feelings that Dorje Shugden has been working hard to protect the Buddhadharma in general and the lineage of Lama Tsongkhapa specifically.
Mirroring the abilities of one of his earlier incarnations, Khedrub Je, a disciple of Lama Tsongkhapa and master of both sutra and tantra, the Panchen Lama used his compositional skill and poetic prowess to create a masterful sadhana. Worthy of note is a praise in which the first letter of each verse is a Tibetan vowel. Such compositions are rarely seen, and have historically only been used when propitiating senior Dharma protectors such as Palden Lhamo and Kalarupa.
The Panchen Lama also stated that while composing the Dorje Shugden sadhana (prayers) he was filled with a sense of happiness and bliss. He ends the composition with not only his official title but his ordination name, Tenzin Trinley Jigme Choje Wangchuk, endorsing the validity of his work. He composed the sadhana in his own Tashi Lhunpo monastery while in the Hall of Clear Light and Bliss.
See the Panchen Lama’s writings and download: https://bit.ly/2KIfeXb
For the first time available, Dorje Shugden and his entourage of 32 assistants of his mandala.
Dorje Shugden is a powerful protector deity who is also an emanation of Manjushri, a wisdom bestowing Buddha. Therefore, he has great ability to help us to progress further on the spiritual path. He does this by helping us to overcome obstacles and problems for the modern individual.
Due to his enlightened nature, Dorje Shugden is able to manifest 32 deities and within the same abode resides Setrap and Kache Marpo:-
1. 5 Dorje Shugden families or emanations. They consists of the following:-
– Dulzin Dorje Shugden, which performs activities to eliminate inner and outer obstacles.
– Shize, which performs activities to pacify all illnesses and disease.
– Gyenze, which performs activities to increase all desirable material and spiritual wealth.
– Wangze, which performs activities to control difficult people and circumstances.
– Trakze, which performs activities to wrathfully eliminate all insurmountable obstacles and life-threatening situations.
2. 9 Mothers. They represent protection of the five senses and developing control of the four elements. These are all attributes that signify their ability to assist tantric practitioners with their higher meditations.
3. 8 Guiding Monks. They represent the Eight Great Bodhisattvas (Avalokiteshvara, Manjushri, Vajrapani, Samantabhadra, Maitreya, Kshitigarbha, Akashagarbha, Sarva-nivarana-viskambini) and they bring about the growth of the Dharma, through the Sangha, Dharma practitioners and Dharma establishments.
4. 10 Youthful & Wrathful Attendants. They represent the ten wrathful attendants to avert inner and outer obstacles. They are beings who are from Mongolia, China, Kashmir, India, Bengali, etc.
5. Setrap. He is a senior Dharma Protector from India and an emanation of Amitabha Buddha. He had enthroned Dorje Shugden as an authentic Dharma Protector. Therefore, he also resides within the same mandala of Dorje Shugden.
6. Kache Marpo. He is not an emanation of Dorje Shugden but he is still an enlightened Dharma Protector in his own right. He was originally known as Tsiu Marpo of Samye Monastery. However, he has placed himself under the service of Dorje Shugden as his chief minister, performing many activities in order to protect and benefit practitioners. Therefore, he stands guard at the main entrance of Dorje Shugden’s mandala. He often takes trance of qualified mediums to speak.
7. Namkar Barzin. He is the reincarnation of an old Mongolian monk and when he passed away in Phari area of Tibet, his spirit was placed as a powerful assistant of Dorje Shugden. He guards and protects buildings and great institutions especially those that benefit others. He rides on a mythical Gyaling animal that resembles a goat but with scales.
These sacred images are available on *Vajrasecrets. They are made of high quality alloy and are one of a kind. They are based on the lineage of His Holiness Panchen Rinpoche’s monastery, Tashilhunpo in Shigatse, Tibet. In fact, the iconography of these statues are based on detailed photographs taken by H. E. Tsem Rinpoche during a trip to Tashilhunpo’s protector chapel. These are based exactly as the 10th Panchen Lama’s personal collection.
Dorje Shugden mandala: https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/?p=131570
Dorje Shugden’s benefit and practice: https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/?p=62422
Dorje Shugden’s origins: https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/?p=106424
Dorje Shugden chapel in His Holiness Panchen Rinpoche’s Tashilhunpo Monastery in Tibet: https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/?p=68698
*Stand not included
Sakya tradition’s thangka of Dorje Shugden sitting on a throne within his palace with his four emanations and high Sakya Lamas nearby. Tsem Rinpoche
Antique Pelden Lhamo thangka with sacred Dorje Shugden at the bottom right. Can see Tsongkapa and Guru Rinpoche on the top also. Beautiful and holy.
In this video, a nice couple is being targeted and attacked just because they are pagan faith. They are Wiccan and the nice lady is a practising elemental witch, but they are being perceived to be bad people and hurting children, although none of that is true and they are being attacked for their faith. This is also another example of what Dorje Shugden people go through especially in Dharamsala, India because the Tibetan Leadership has put a notice on their official site stating that Shugden practitioners are bad and demon worshippers which is completely untrue. Hence, daily Shugden practitioners are being persecuted and if you are not there in Dharamsala, you get online abuse like what H.E. Tsem Rinpoche receives daily as well as myself and other Kecharians who are openly practising what our Guru gave us.
Is this kind of discrimination and violence acceptable in this day and age when there is religious freedom? Why are these people allowed to do this crime? Why is the Tibetan Leadership acting like a dictatorship and attacking others of a different faith? They do it indirectly and encourage this hatred because they do nothing, say nothing and have a page talking against Shugden on their official website. That is a clear indication there is a ban and discrimination against Shugden people.
https://video.tsemtulku.com/chat-videos/chat-1516798075.mp4
In this video is a police officer being discriminated for his Wiccan religion and he is going to sue the state because he was told it was mandatory for him to attend a Christian gathering. There is supposed to be freedom of religion, so why is it okay for a group of people to force other people to join, pray and believe their religion? And what gives them the authority to tell people what to believe or not to believe in? This is a dictatorship type of leadership, not a democratic one at all. And this is exactly the same question I would like to ask the Tibetan Leadership and those who come on our social media wall to abuse us and call us names and vulgarities because we practice Dorje Shugden. Watch what the guy says in the video.
https://video.tsemtulku.com/chat-videos/chat-1516798026.mp4
I’ve just attached a video here on a lady reading about “the Persecution of Women in Witchcraft”. It is stated that in the early 16th century there was a mass execution of witchcraft. In the year 1515 in Geneva Switzerland, they burned 500 witches at the stake.In 1526, 1000 witches in Italy were executed. In 1571 witch hunt spreads across France.In total it is estimated from 1500 – 1600, there were 50 – 80,000 suspected witches executed.
Religious persecution in any way is wrong, look at how many lives were taken because people decide to discriminate on others and persecute them just because they do not follow your belief system. This is exactly what Dorje Shugden practitioners are facing today as well when the Tibetan leadership keeps on harping and silently encouraging their people to discriminate and ostracised Shugden practitioners which we can see from all the above online abuse. Is this okay in this 21st century, is this what H.H. the Dalai Lama advocates – religious tolerance? I think not.
https://video.tsemtulku.com/chat-videos/chat-1516797992.mp4
Despite the founding fathers’ effort to give Americans religious freedom, the Wiccans and Pagans are denied their right, such as to have Chaplains to perform ceremonies, receiving books and materials and so on in prison. It is not fair and this is the kind of discrimination Dorje Shugden practitioners faces. Tibetans in exile are supposed to be ruled under democracy, but they are denied their rights of religious freedom. This is not fair.
https://video.tsemtulku.com/chat-videos/chat-1516797960.mp4
This is another example of religious discrimination. Wicca was accused to be related to Satan, which is not true. Wiccans are being rejected from being able to participate in the governmental system as they are not a member of the mainstream Judeo-Christian religion.Similarly, Dorje Shugden is accused to be a demon/ evil spirit, and that Shugden practitioners are not allowed to participate in the system – they cannot work in governmental jobs, they are denied travel documents, they are not denied medical treatment, and the members of the public are advised to not be associated with them.
https://video.tsemtulku.com/chat-videos/chat-1516797909.mp4
This video shows how Christians in Nigeria face enormous persecution, similar to what Dorje Shugden people are facing.Just like what Bishop Mike Moses said in the video, they are being persecuted “in your own country, your own community”, and that’s worse than being persecuted by others.
https://video.tsemtulku.com/chat-videos/chat-1516797726.mp4
Everyone has rights to practise what they like. Those who practise witchcraft has their rights to practise but they are not allowed to voice out their concerns, fearing to be treated differently just like most Dorje Shugden people.
https://video.tsemtulku.com/chat-videos/chat-1516798931.mp4
Taken away the rights to purchase items for witchcraft is the same as burning the witch for practising their religion. It is just a manifestation of different types of witch hunt and banning the sale of certain items is the same as stopping them from practising a certain ritual that is the same as taking their rights away. This scenario is the same as what Dorje Shugden people face also.
https://video.tsemtulku.com/chat-videos/chat-1516798088.mp4
This is another proof of discrimination that is similar to Dorje Shugden people. The witchcraft people do not get to purchase their religious practise items online because there is no law that protects their rights on what they can purchase and what not they cannot.
https://video.tsemtulku.com/chat-videos/chat-1516797979.mp4
Pagan man talks about freedom of religion choices
Religious freedom should be applicable to all including Pagan practitioners and atheists
https://video.tsemtulku.com/chat-videos/chat-1516796937.mp4
This man’s dilemma is similar to what Dorje Shugden practitioners are experiencing. Even if the Dalai Lama has discouraged Dorje Shugden practice, those who choose to retain their practice should still have the right to do so without being penalized, without being discriminated, abused, attacked and harassed day in day out. Religious Freedom is every human’s right and should be respected, when the Tibetan Leadership stay silent when Shugden practitioners are being attacked, it is clear they condone it. So how can Tibetan Leadership claim to be democratic when they are not and how can they point the finger and blame others for human rights abuse when they do so themselves with their very own people? Illogical, injustice and unacceptable in this day and age!
Oklahoma Pagan suffer Discrimination
A lady witch suffers discrimination after being found out that she is a witch.
Uploaded: https://video.tsemtulku.com/chat-videos/chat-1516796905.mp4
This is similar to what Dorje Shugden practitioners are experiencing in Tibetan settlements. Once they are found out that they are a Dorje Shugden practitioner, they would be a target for discrimination (e.g., denied service in the public places), some even target attacked. And if you are not in Dharamsala, you will be targeted and attacked online with vulgarities and all kinds of derogatory slurs.
Messianic Jews Persecuted
In 2005, a large number of protestors crashed the Messianic Jews Christmas eve celebration and told them to go back to Gaza.
https://video.tsemtulku.com/chat-videos/chat-1516796866.mp4
Any form of discrimination is wrong and should be discouraged and stopped. How can we discriminate people base on their religion, just because we dislike their religion? This is pure prejudice and hatred, so how can this be considered good and right for those executing such persecution? And this is exactly the same mentality the Tibetan Leadership has and encourage their people to attack Shugden practitioners. This is the kind of hatred that cause division, war, and suffering. How can one religion claim to be better than the other in the name of “God”? How can this be considered compassion?
Great message every Tibetan especially must read!
I continue to pray for your strength and protection knowing Kechara is a very very special place on this planet. I know it may appear a little strange for me to write the following and yet at the risk of appearing “controversial” I write it anyway….
Kechara has an unusually strong presence of enlightened beings seen and unseen. The unseen are not to be underestimated in aiding in the affairs of the seen, I’ve witnessed this while contemplating Kechara and it’s great works. Please continue to do all you can with law enforcement and all appropriate agencies to stop and redirect the misguided souls who threaten your Guru, they are caught in the nets of the lower realms.
And please turn to the enlightened unseen who will help you at every turn. Actually they are already helping you every moment, in concert, it’s one of the most beautiful images ever revealed to me.
Kechara is a place of true compassion and good works, I feel sorry for those who don’t see this and recommend they practice the Dharma more and stop writing such anti-Buddhist nonsense regardless of what the Tibetan Gov in Exile promotes. They must go within and be true to themselves first. Governments can go thru periods of corruptions, it’s not uncommon and it is what is happening now. Since when does Buddhism promote violence? It doesn’t…..ever.
Profound compassion literally pours out of this website, I see and feel it very clearly, it’s like being under a waterfall, very strong and purifying.
To further clarify my above post, I recommended seeking the help of law enforcement because the people who make these threats and disrespectful remarks about Rinpoche, are lost and need help for their own sake as well. They are not exactly accumulating good karma and need to be very careful.
I felt so ashamed that these people called themselves Buddhist or studying Buddhism. After reading all those terrible comments and as though they know it all. How ignorant we humans can be. Anyway I wish my beloved Guru Tsem Rinpoche will always be protected by Dorje Shugden.
Judgement is not only through analysis. Observation through get in touch with the people & environment is very important too. When I get involved in Kechara activities & get along with the people here., I just can’t believe that all these people that I get in touch in Kechara are evil as say by the people who anti Dorje Shugden. They are so kind & helpful! Most important is they all practice Dorje Shugden! I always believe that excellent student come from excellent Guru. From observation of the Student behavior, we know how is the moral of the Guru.
I’m impressed….how some people can say they practice dharma , when their thoughts & actions are so far away…from the reality,I’m practising a couple of years but I think I can understand the basic to start with-don’t judge- or have malevolent intentions-towards others, Anyway I wish a long long life to his Eminence, happiness & good health?He is so kind?
Disgusting to read the conversation among these people. They do not know who H. E. Tsem Tulku Rinpoche is. They lied about anything that can come out from their mouth but they forgot to do their homework. They do not know what H. E. Tsem Tulku Rinpoche has compassionately contributed to Gaden monastery, how Rinpoche had helped those that lives around the monastery and the less fortunate in Malaysia. What Rinpoche has done and benefited to the people around the world, below are just a few examples.
Kechara Soup Kitchen 克切拉香积厨 (2016) 1
http://www.youtube.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZoxHRjJO5g
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1425901307495445&set=pcb.1425901990828710&type=3&theater
http://www.thestar.com.my/…/remembering-the-less-fortunate/…
It is not acceptable for someone, anyone to attack a monk and a lama. These attacks are not justified and should not be condoned because it is so wrong on many levels. It violates fundamental human rights, it is a criminal offense when one threatened to kill or harm another, it is against Buddhism values, and of course, it creates fear, anger, and schism in the community. We must voice out against the attacks.
Thank you Rinpoche and Datuk May for writing and sharing this article. The death threats that were thrown onto Rinpoche must not be taken lightly. Why does Dorje Shugden practitioners have to go through this kind of life threatening situation? Just because they are practising an enlightened Dharma protector who protects the Nagarjuna’s Middle View teachings? So manyHigh Lamas also practised Dorje Shugden and their lives were not shorten. Dorje Shugden is a Dharma Protector who help us to clear obstacles for our Dharma practice. Now that the ban in on, many innocent Lamas are being attacked and the lived being threatened. How to promote peace when one is threatening another person’s life? As a student of Rinpoche, I will do my very best to protect my Guru’s name and life.
With folded palms,
Vivian
Disgusting and shocking to read those comments by practitioners of anti Dorje Shugden practice .How can they said those threatening words without verfy the truth.Even if you do not like or agree with things,well just ignore and happyly move on to the next chapter. No one should be discriminated and segregated just because of different religious belief and religious freedom should be allowed.
Rinpoche have done so much to benefit us through his work,teachings and advices which we should always appreciate and why attacked,threatening Rinpoche.For those ex-practitioners hope they can moved on.that’s more to do in life.
May the ban on Dorjeshugden be lifted soon to bring peace and harmony to all .
Thank you Rinpoche for sharing.May Rinpoche live long to continue turning the Dharma wheel to benefit all sentient beings.
I thoroughly enjoyed reading this comment made by Suzy on Rinpoche’s YouTube channel. Suzy has a unique opinion as to why His Holiness imposed the Shugden ban, one that corresponds to the Dalai Lama being Avalokiteshvara. Do you agree with her? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl-4lIwxph4&t=11s Anyway its welcome news to see more people embracing the practice despite the Tibetan leadership’s efforts to deny the practice.
Trode Khangsar Chapel in Lhasa, TibetOver 400 years ago a great and learned lama Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen was famed in Mongolia, Tibet, Nepal and China for being very saintly and compassionate. He resided in his residence (Zimkhang Gongma Ladrang) in Drepung Monastery. His root guru was H.H. the Omniscient 4th Panchen Lama and his close dharma brother was the 5th Dalai Lama.
The 5th Dalai Lama and Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen had a very close and dharmic relationship and often went to receive teachings together from the 4th Panchen Lama. They were close in age. They both became very learned and well known. During this time, the Dalai Lama was enthroned as a Dharma King of Tibet. But more people went to see Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen for teachings, initiations and divinations. This made the attendants of the 5th Dalai Lama feel threatened that Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen’s fame might usurp the power of the 5th Dalai Lama. So they had a khata forced down his throat. At that moment, Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen dissolved his psychic winds and generated the wish to be a great guardian of Buddha and Tsongkapa’s teachings. As his consciousness dissolved, he entered ‘bardo’ as a dharma protector of the highest order (jikten depey sungma). Many signs were seen throughout Lhasa at this time and the earth was said to have shaken in Lhasa. This event was already predicted to Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen’s previous incarnation when he was one of the 8 main disciples of Lord Tsongkapa the Supreme Master and he served Tsongkapa directly by building Gaden Monastery.
When the 5th Dalai Lama heard what his scheming and power-hungry attendants had done, he was very distressed. He was very sorry Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen was murdered and dishonored as he was a great dharma master. The 5th Dalai Lama composed an apology to Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen. In Lhasa, tens of thousands gathered for the cremation of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen’s holy body. During the cremation, the 5th Dalai Lama’s apology was read out at which flames spontaneously arose from the body of Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen commencing the cremation. From the body, during cremation, a powerful whirlwind of smoke tunneled into the sky for all to see as this was an indication Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen’s consciousness has arisen as the Dharma Protector Dorje Shugden. The Dharma Protector Setrap immediately recognized this new protector Dorje Shugden and ‘enthroned’ him as a powerful Dharma Protector in the realm of the Buddhas. From this, Setrap and Dorje Shugden are closely connected and very close working hand in hand always. After the cremation, the great 5th Dalai Lama built a Dorje Shugden chapel on the spot the cremation took place and named it Trode Khangsar. The 5th Dalai Lama commissioned the statue of Dorje Shugden in this chapel and had monks installed in the chapel to do continuous propitiations to Dorje Shugden. Trode Khangsar Chapel was a commemoration to Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen who was wronged and also a celebration of his consciousness arising as the World Peace Peace Protector Dorje Shugden.
This Trode Khangsar Chapel still exists now in Lhasa where many make pilgrimages there. It is in good condition and was recently renovated. It is over 400 years old and a testimony to the respect the Great 5th Dalai Lama had to Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen who arose as Dorje Shugden.
I have visited this holy chapel in Lhasa years back. I’ve never heard of it till I was in Lhasa and by chance, I was told about it which I was happy to visit. I could not find the place but strangely a bunch of pilgrims from Amdo told me they would show me how to get there in Lhasa.
This short video is a short clip of this holy Trode Khangsar Chapel in Lhasa today commemorating Dorje Shugden, built by the great 5th Dalai Lama. The great 5th Dalai Lama even composed a prayer to Dorje Shugden which is still available today and we can recite to invoke the blessings, protection, and assistance of World Peace Protector Dorje Shugden.
Tsem Rinpoche
Read more: Trode Khangsar – A 400-year-old Dorje Shugden Chapel in Lhasa
https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/dorje-shugden/trode-khangsar-%E2%80%93-a-400-year-old-dorje-shugden-chapel-in-lhasa.html
Short video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTybDwTeLAM
__________________________________
The 5th Dalai Lama’s Prayer to Dorje ShugdenHUM
Though unmoving from the sphere of primordial spontaneity,
With wrathful turbulent power, swifter than lightning,
Endowed with heroic courage to judge good and bad,
I invite you with faith, please come to this place!
Robes of a monk, crown adorned with rhinoceros leather hat,
Right hand holds ornate club, left holds a human heart,
Riding various mounts such as nagas and garudas,
Who subdues the mamos of the charnel grounds, praise to you!
Samaya substances, offerings and torma, outer, inner and secret,
Favourite visual offerings and various objects are arranged.
Although, previously, my wishes were a bit dense,
Do not stop your powerful apparitions, I reveal and confess!
Now respectfully praising with body, speech, and mind,
For us, the masters, disciples, benefactors and entourages,
Provide the good and avert the bad!
Bring increase like the waxing moon in spiritual and temporal realms!
Moreover, swiftly accomplishing all wishes,
According to our prayers, bestow the supreme effortlessly!
And like the jewel that bestows all wishes,
Always protect us with the Three Jewels!
From: http://www.dorjeshugden.org/practice/the-5th-dalai-lamas-prayer-to-dorje-shugden
Tibetan prayer from: https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/dorje-shugden/the-14th-dalai-lamas-prayer-to-dorje-shugden.html
It is not acceptable for threatening someone’s life just because of different belief. Religious freedom is basic human rights. No one should be discriminated and segregated because of different religious belief.
I hope those who throw all the negative words and actions on Dorje Shugden practitioners to first find out the right source and origins of Dorje Shugden before jumping the gun and put all the blame to Rinpoche and even kill him for this.
How can an enlightened dharma protector and emanation of Manjushri bring harm to the practitioners? Not acceptable.
The logic is quite simple
Nice to know Patricia Snodgrass, Wong Kok Chung (Joey Wong) and Carol McQuire are in contact. All those nasties on Tsem Rinpoche, guess now we know who directed Carol and her “friends”‘s attention to him with all those fake stories. The violence and vulgarities against Tsem Rinpoche, now there’s proof who was the source of it.
More Carol, more! Work with Linda to get more out!
Just came across more from Linda Ciardiello, but this time collaborating with Carol McQuire. Love the colours Linda!
Loving the emphasis on the lips Linda, great job on the cartoons 🙂 takes some real talent to get caricatures together! Eye-catching stuff.
And I wonder what kind of struggles this poor Jamie Khoo says she has gone through. Poor thing, she should go and get some counselling. It can’t be natural or even pleasant to live with that much hate and anger.
And this one too! Looks like Jiunn Hsiao has been very very busy with his new website and thanks to Linda, everyone knows about it now! LMAO
Someone’s been very busy!! Thanks Linda Ciardiello for making all of these memes and spreading them everywhere hahahaha they’re friggin’ hilarious!!!
Reading this article and seeing so many bad thing anti shugden people do and write against Dorje Shugden practitioners for years, feels really sad ..i sometimes feels this Anti Shugden people who comments this kind of upsetting comments, feels they are not really Buddhist practitioners,.. Reading there comment can see there is no real Dharma in there minds.
It is shocking that spiritual practitioners can say such things without responsibility and remorse. This is just an example of the threats and harm and mental abuse that many anti dorje shugden people leveled at Dorje Shugden people and practitioners. Some Dorje Shudgen lamas have passed away under very suspicious circumstances.
93,000 for this post https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/buddhas-dharma/who-is-dorje-shugden-to-me.html ??? Seems like people really do want to learn about Dorje Shugden no matter what the naysayers say. You can’t stop the truth 🙂
Wow, just wow. No wonder Patricia has been so quiet. She was busy renaming her blog so that she can continue to court the people she’s trying to butter up, so she can get money off them for her ‘dharma centre’. Interesting.
So Patricia issues death threats against someone then tries to quote the law to defend herself?
I’m confused Patricia. Since when did state law trump federal law, especially when it concerns matters of the American Constitution? In fact, the case she quotes states that according to the Texas Constitution:
“Every person shall be at liberty to speak, write or publish his opinions on any subject, being responsible for the abuse of that privilege; and no law shall ever be passed curtailing the liberty of speech or of the press. Tex.Const. art. I, § 8.”
Yes, but the law doesn’t protect you against legal action for making death threats. Death threats do not fall under ‘freedom of speech’.
In the ruling of the case she quotes, it also states that the law only applies when:
“The language enjoined here evoked no threat of danger to anyone and, therefore, may not be subject to the prior restraint of a temporary injunction. Defamation alone is not a sufficient justification for restraining an individual’s right to speak freely. Ex parte Tucker, 110 Tex. 335, 220 S.W. 75, 76 (1920).”
Here’s the funny thing Patricia – you asked for a house to be dropped on someone. You said that Tsem Rinpoche will not live to see the end of the year. That wasn’t just defamation, that was referring to death and that was language referring to danger.
I hope she doesn’t try to continue sounding important in her attempt to defend her nastiness and death threats. She knows what she did and what she said and it’s digusting that she continues to try to defend herself.
This is the case Patricia cites as her defence for issuing death threats against people. I think she had better do her homework. The ruling states that they found in favour of the petitioner to dissolve the temporary injunction because the language he originally used did not evoke any threat of danger.
But Patricia’s comment is not in the same category so the same leeway in the law wouldn’t apply here. She said that if Tsem Rinpoche’s not careful, he won’t live to see out the year. Sounds pretty violent to me.
H.E. Tsem Tulku Rinpoche makes khata offerings to His Holiness the Dalai Lama, His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche, His Holiness Zong Rinpoche and Dorje Shugden
For 18 years, there has been much pain and difficulties due to the ban on Dorje Shugden practice. H.E. Tsem Tulku Rinpoche advocates reconciliation between His Holiness the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden practitioners, and for efforts to be made towards a positive settlement. Tsem Rinpoche continues to respect His Holiness and simply wishes for a result that is mutually beneficial for everyone involved.
See what Rinpoche has to say about His Holiness the Dalai Lama, Dorje Shugden practice, the ban and the protests, the violence, the disturbance, the riots and the Tibetan leadership. To watch this extracted snippet, please go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng4xRZU9DBE
“If the Dalai Lama, if His Holiness the Dalai Lama can be harmed by Dorje Shugden, then we might as well not practice Buddhism anymore. If His Holiness the Dalai Lama can have his life shortened by a so-called evil spirit, any evil spirit, then can he be Avalokiteshvara? So on one hand you say, we say, I say, everybody says, he is Avalokiteshvara; on the other hand you’re saying that he can harmed by an evil spirit… Which one is it? Can he harmed by an evil spirit or is he Avalokiteshvara? Do you think Avalokiteshvara, Manjushri, Vajrapani, Tara all take refuge in something else to protect themselves from Dorje Shugden? How illogical is that? How illogical of people to say His Holiness the Dalai Lama can be harmed by an evil spirit, any evil spirit or “Dorje Shugden” evil spirit. How is that possible?” – Tsem Tulku Rinpoche
The article above bring teary of me while reading the words one by one. I read it twice and keep on thinking why there are haters around the world not met Rinpoche before but can be so rude and being vulgar.
If they need to bear the consequences when they are giving the false statements or their rudeness, they still can behave like this?
From my personal experience, i am not a nice person and always rude when i am in temper. But after i join Kechara and follow to Rinpoche teaching i become better and transformed a bit. The Law of Karma will never changed, we need to bear the consequences to what we did. So i am trying to be a better person than a angersome. I will research properly before i comment in any situations. Its hard to collect Merits that we needed but at least i try to be create more Negative Karma through this way.
If we are paid to do something, but there are thousands of occupation we can choose to sustain of life. We still got thousands of choice, instead of making some money with generate abundance of Negative Karma.
Rinpoche and Dorje Shugden save my life, hence by following Rinpoche teaching i am become a better person than before. So i beg to the haters please stop to create abundance negative karma but just stop and respect. Similarly as a Malaysian, we are respect to others religion but not criticized and be rude to others. This is a simply way to create a harmony and peace no only for a country but to the world.
I fell that we need pray more to Lord Manjushri even those who can’t accept the wrathful Manjushri at this moment to lesser done our ignorance and gain more wisdom so we can be a better person and have a swift Dharma path.
Your sincerely,
Casteven
I use to follow and trust this Tenpel’s blog. But as you read more and more, it sounds nice at first, but it is set up to attack others.
He has no right to judge Tsem in any way or accuse Tsem of tricking the public in regards to the Dorje Shugden practice. In Tibetan society when you reveal you are practicing Dorje Shugden, your life is in danger. Tsem is very brave to finally come out. What people don’t understand is, Tsem is brave to risk his life and keeping his practice secret all these years was not deception but protection.
As regards to and Ex-Kechara Tenpel mentions he is in contact with is Wong Kok Chung (Joey or something like that). Wong Kok Chung has been in contact with many people in order to defame Tsem and Kechara. He was caught doing things in Kechara that was very savory to say the least on the grapevine. So he was asked to leave. He is bitter he was asked to leave. He use to have a blog which is since removed that advertised all his homosexual exploits and adventures. Very unsafe and unsavory character.
Dear Why,
There are many people like Tenpel who concentrate solely on attacking others. Tenpel and like minded people also like to claim that their actions are meant to protect others from being deceived by any cult, but if you see what they write, you can tell directly and in between the lines that they just want to attack.
When one has an intention to attack, the things they write or say naturally meant to achieve that, so the content logically will be twisted to suit their needs. How much can you trust statements written with this kind of intention?
You seemed to know about the ex-Kecharian, what he did and why he was asked to leave politely. It is very difficult for me to understand why one attack Rinpoche and the Kechara organisation for their own mistake and to the point to threaten Rinpoche’s life and safety.
Any real Buddhist practitioner will understand and practise the law of cause and effect, to take responsibility of their own actions. Blaming others, disparaging, attacking etc. will only show people with sound mind that the complainer is the one with problem. However, we will not take their statements lightly and continue to do what is necessary to keep Rinpoche from being harm.
Thank you for your comment.
With best wishes,
Pastor Adeline
Pastricia Snodgrass!!!
Why do you want Tsem Rinpoche dead? Why do you threaten?
Why do you and your so called friend Carol McQuire and her so called friends want Rinpoche dead? Why?
Do you know it’s a crime?
Patricia Snodgrass,
It’s good you privatized your blog and your fb page. Whatever ugly, vicious and vulgar threats and lies you write will be saved by many people. You will be looking for legal problems. Stay hidden and stay away.
You don’t practice dharma. You haunt dharma pages to get closer to people so you can tell them your pity party stories to extract money and gifts.
Where is the money you took from kechara and gifts? You bragged about it. Return everything if you have dignity. Return the money and gifts and Keep your mouth clamped closed. When you open your mouth and start typing, you bring trouble. You should be ashamed attacking a monk and his organization who did nothing to you but gave you money and gifts. SHAME ON YOU.
Stay away. Many will keep watch what you are saying and save.
I have been following Tsem Tulku for quite some years, of course his Dharma center Kechara as well, but I have to make it clear that I never been to the center or participate in any of the activities there, but I always read Tsem Tulku’s blog/Facebook so I get to know many things happening in Kechara, from the past until now. The reason I didn’t personally go to Kechara is that, haha, they are too “young” for me but I like Tsem Tulku and his students.
Recently because of the Dorje Shugden practice, many things happen. Sad to see people are taking opportunity to hurt the Lama and the center out of selfish motivation, or some, out of anger. And I observe the students of Tsem Tulku as well, most of them stick together with each other harmoniously, sharing the Dharma on the internet and I really enjoy their sharing and posts. While the students sharing the Dharma and good deeds done by their Lama, some ex-students, for example like Jamie, after leaving the Lama and the center, she goes all the way to put down the Lama and the center she used to praise and love, it is so incredible that she could be just so ungrateful and betray her Lama and center.
From what I observe, Jamie, she used to have blog and wrote many beautiful words about her spiritual path in Kechara and how Tsem Tulku touches and changes her life. She wrote flowery words to praise the Lama and always express her gratitude and respect towards Tsem Tulku. But somehow,2years ago, her blog gone missing! All the praises and respect just went missing! And in return, she wrote “ugly” things about her Lama, twisting the context and facts. If you do not believe what I have said, please read her book “Call Me Paris”. From this book you will see how much she respects Tsem Tulku and how she praises Tsem Tulku. Now all these gone…should I say impermanence? No, it is hypocrisy.
Why hypocrisy? How could Jamie highly praised someone and in the end she turn against the person and ran away, and deleted all the words she used to write to praise and show her respect? It is total hypocrisy sad to say! From what I can see online, Tsem Tulku used so many resources, time, money to invest on Jamie to make her a star writer, gave her the limelight and opportunities to be well known(https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/liaisons/kmps-young-writers-blossoming-getting-bigger.html & https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/kechara-13-depts/bfm-radio-interviews-jamie-about-her-great-book.html) and it was obvious Jamie enjoyed all the fame, attention and limelight. When she was in Kechara, she got to attend talks, went for radio station for interviews, be at the front to talk… all these were possible because of Tsem Tulku her Lama but now she never even talk about it again. Not only she will never talk about it again, she even says the other way round, badmouthing her own Lama. How I know she enjoyed it? At the very least she is now using her old portfolios, including those in her Kechara days to get writing job! Isn’t she hypocrite? The little fame she got at the moment, it is all from Tsem Tulku no matter how she wants to deny. Even an outsider like myself see this fact clearly. You can see how much Tsem Tulku have care for her and want her to succeed.
I wish Jamie to face herself honestly and stop blaming others for her own failure. I see many successful examples of Tsem Tulku’s other students, they are doing great and I appreciate them very much as a member of the Buddhist community in Malaysia. Tsem Tulku and Kechara are good and beneficial to many no matter what protector they practice. Just leave them alone if you don’t wish to help. Like what His Holiness teaches: If you can’t love, at least don’t harm.
This Jamie Khoo began and wrote up a nasty website incognito and blasted so many twisted lies about Rinpoche. She would call, text and contact Kechara people to send the link to this blog site and ask them to read. She think she clever because she don’t write her name on the blogsite (no courage and lies)and don’t name names, but it’s obvious she is talking about Rinpoche and Kechara. A few people revealed it’s her on this site. So vindictive and so vengeful. She is unhappy person and lonely so she has to take it out on others. You want to leave, LEAVE! Leave quietly and keep quiet. You are not innocent Jamie Khoo!!!
Jamie Khoo is behind websites that degrade Tsem Rinpoche. She doesn’t sign her name.
Wow, so many are talking about this Jamie Khoo now! Well I guess why I know she left Kechara and so vengeful about her “EX” Guru.
When you go to her blog site(ehem, the current one), it is all about beauty, losing weight, how she accepts her “failure”(not getting slim down after she tried to for so many years) that she is “FINALLY” OK with her body shape… Don’t you think is funny that she is obviously trying to justify why she cannot slim down and she even needs to tell the whole world her failure to get sympathy or support? She is EXTREMELY insecure if you observe properly. Sad case. So the same thing goes to her spiritual life in Kechara! She thought she failed her spiritual path(she thinks in this way but I don’t think so) and like her failure in slimming down, she needs to justify why she “failed” her spiritual path in Kechara: the people are not good to her, the Guru is not good to her, everyone is nasty and she is the angel and the victim. Oh come on… Tsem treated her like a princess so thats why she used to call herself Dharma Princess( https://www.ammado.com/nonprofit/113327/articles/14805 ) but suddenly now she is a victim?!
For a girl like Jamie, when she cannot get something, when she couldn’t succeed, the only way out is to blame others at all cost, even at the cost of her EX Guru’s life! What Jamie needs to do to revenge? Work together with anti-Shugden people and harm Tsem. If I can think in this way, why not she? So becareful people in Kechara.
These comments have truly reflected what kind of human beings these people are, so much hatred, intolerance and ignorance. Just because we do not share the same religious views, that doesn’t give anyone the authority to ostracise, discriminate others. What makes you a better religion practitioner if you are acting this way? Is this how a religion practitioner should act like? It doesn’t matter if you are Christians, Muslims or Buddhists; Religion teaches compassion and tolerance, not discrimination and all that. If you do not believe in the working of karma that’s too bad because I do, for the all the things we have done with the intention of hurting others, degrading them, criticising them, we will definitely suffer the backlashes. This is how karma works, believe it or not. I do not wish for anything to happen to anyone, definitely not; but if these haters keep doing what they are doing now, which are degrading and putting down someone else’s religion and practise etc, they will suffer the fruits of their self-created karma.
It’s unbelievable that a monk from a reputable monastery can disparage and write lies about a highly respected guru, Tsem Tulku Rinpoche. Being a monk he surely knows that this is schism, this is the very opposite what the buddha teaches. It’s baffling that a monk could behave in such a manner. It’s so shameful as any normal people with basic moral will not do such a thing, what he did really gives his monastery a bad name. What’s wrong with Dorje Shugden practice? There’s no logic to threaten, harm or kill just because of different beliefs, we are not living in the stone age, religious freedom and human rights are for everyone regardless of what our beliefs are. As long as one doesnt cause any trouble or harm, no body should be threatened with death for their belief, more so a highly attained Lama, the consequences are grave. Please do respect others for their faith and practise.
It’s also sad that ex students of Rinpoche can turn around to attack him with so much hatred. It’s fine if they want to leave due to personal reasons but please don’t write negative things and lies about Rinpoche who showered you with so much kindness and care. Please do repent and stop the negative speech and threat, for the karma is heavy unless you think the Buddha’s teachings are wrong.
With folded hands, I pray for Rinpoche’s safety.
修行的人怎么会做这种事呢？Patricia 我觉得你很可怜，离开和放弃了这么好的上师。 你忘恩负义和胡言亂語。难道不懂得因果报应吗？珍惜人身，专注于自己的修行。他人有自由选择自己的修行，没人能管的着。仁波切的善心，人人有目共睹。请不要再伤害我的上师，扰乱他的思维。
Yee Mun
雖然我們無法阻止他人做出辱罵、毀謗、威脅的行為，但是我們可以對這些行為採取適當的行動。Patricia 受惠於我們的上師，從上師、團體和會員等處得到不少金錢和物質上的幫助，之後卻反過來威脅上師，其行為真的很讓人費解。
老實說，會講出那麼壞的話，實際上是她本身的怒氣所使然。在怒氣的蒙蔽下，因果報應、佛陀教誨，全都會拋諸腦後，更不用說會想到自己行為所帶來的結果。暇滿人身非常難得，得到後卻用在製造惡業上，真的是入寶山而空手回。很可惜！
上師以身體力行來實踐和弘揚佛法，例如香積廚、講法師、佛教中心等等的事業，無日無夜在為他人謀福利而努力，最近更是費盡全神在關注尼泊爾大地震，深入了解難民及家人所需，為他們做法會等等，這樣的上師怎麼會像那些人說的那樣呢？
懇請您跟大家分享這篇文章之餘，也分享上師及團體的善業，讓大家判斷是非，不要人云亦云，自害害人！
謝謝您！
溫婉如講法師合十
现在的人们都不信因果, 任意造业，还毀谤一位高僧，还说耍杀害自己的上師，我的天呀 ! 妳是修行者嗎？妳还是人嗎？
所謂 “举头三尺有神灵” 我们在做任何事情说的每一句话都要明白我们的起心动念和一举一动都是天知地知的，决对不能伤害到一切种生，何況是我們的上師。因为这个空间不只是我们人类存在，我们每个人背后都有很多无形的众生，有冤亲债主，还有亲缘眷属和法缘眷属，冤亲债主就是我们的业力，生生世世欠的债，法缘眷属就是我们修行人所讲的护法神，亲缘眷属就是我们过去生的父母兄弟姐妹。所以我们在日常生活中一定要处处结善缘，必须要守好五戒十善，当我们做了好事天地神灵会为妳记功德，你的福报会越来越大，相反当我们做坏事的时候，恶运就会慢慢的或者很快的向妳走来，当业果现前时，后悔就来不及了。
我的佛法知識不很好，但是基本的我都知道，是人都應該知道。妳呢??
朋友，不要再造下恶业給自己了，忏悔吧！
I am saddened to hear about such threats against our beloved guru who has only shown love and care to all, including those that attack him. Rinpoche has to go through so much to bring the Dharma and benefit to so many. Having read many of the comments, I am astounded that these ex students some of whom served Rinpoche very closely for years, and received much teachings and kindness, and could just turn around and literally backstab our beloved Guru. Did they not learn anything during their stint? Their recent actions seem to completely devoid any sincerity in their Dharma practice when they were with Kechara. To turn around and threaten Rinpoche based on DS practice is not acceptable. It seems that some have much anger and resentment, and are using this platform to “get back” with whatever they are dissatisfied with in life.
However, it is not logical that anyone practicing any form of Buddhism would behave in such a way if they truly understood the basic law of Karma. I pray that they they may find peace within themselves, but also pray that the ban to Dorje Shudgen is lifted soon as this cannot be an excuse for others to use it to attack others in such a disturbingly aggressive and violent manner.
Dear Ming,
Thank you so much for your kind message!
It is very true that people are using the Dorje Shugden practise as a platform to get back at Rinpoche because they do not have anything substantial that proof their hate speech towards Rinpoche and Kechara.
A dharma centre is open for people from all walks of life, people come, people go; some stay and improve, some improved and leave, some stay and do not change, of course some leave without change also. Obviously, it is solely the choice that individuals had made. The question is why make a choice and then put the blame onto people in the dharma centre?
In our case, people who have left did have good merits and karma to be in Rinpoche’s mandala doing something meaningful and beneficial in their lives, and whatever time, efforts they have put in within that period of time did not gone into waste, many are benefited because of them. Isn’t it better to think about all the good things one has done than to give in to the negative thoughts that one has?
Negative thoughts can arise from anger, jealousy, bitterness etc. due to one refusing to see one’s flaws. When they refuse to see within, they started to blame externally, and conveniently to those who had kindly pointed that out to them. The extreme cases are those that you’ve mentioned.
We will continue to protect Rinpoche and His precious works and take all necessary actions to do so. On the other hand, we appreciate people, especially those who had been benefited by Rinpoche, to please come forward to show your support by leaving comment here https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/dorje-shugden/they-want-to-kill-me.html, share your kind thoughts about Rinpoche and Kechara, so that more and more people are aware of how selfless, kind and compassionate Rinpoche is.
Again, I thank you for your kind comment and please share more with us if you can.
With much appreciation,
Pastor Adeline
I think Tsem should sue this group. They always talk about compassion but Tsem’s group helps thousands of people. What if this group and their evil ways wins? Tsem is stopped from helping so many people and the karma will be on this anti-Shugden group’s heads.
How about THEY start an organisation or group that can help so many people, instead of staying online all day and night complaining about the state of the world? What useful things have they contributed to society except negative talk and bad speech? No they won’t start such a group because ACTUALLY benefitting others is too much effort for them.
So it’s best they zip it. This Patricia woman keeps saying she’s sorry but I saw her telling Tsem to man up and email her. Does she think everyone is stupid? She threatens someone’s life then asks THEM to email her? How about she be little bit polite for once and send them an actual apology? I really don’t understand these people sometimes and I don’t think Kecharians should let her get away with it. When you tell someone to man up and email you, those are not the words of a remorseful, apologetic individual.
Dear Andrew, thank you for your comment. What is most important is that people should know about the good deed and Dharma work that Rinpoche had done for the benefit of many people in Malaysia, and around the world.
They can write all they want and claim to be compassion and all knowing about Dharma, but as a student of Tsem Rinpoche, Rinpoche not only teach about compassion, tolerance, and giving, but also walk the talks, you can see Rinpoche helping the homeless in the street by giving them food, provide food for strays cats and dogs, travelling everywhere where care and blessing is needed.
The fact that Kechara Puja House, Kechara Soup Kitchen, Kechara Oasis and the 13 Department of Kechara is due to the compassion of Rinpoche so that the public can be benefited through these various department. These are the positive work that had benefited so many people and we should let others know about these great work to people, let them make the judgement. Perhaps at the end they are influence to do good instead of being a keyboard critics who speak Dharma but act Drama.
I’m stupefied by the amount of hatred being thrown at an innocent Lama just because He practises Dorje Shugden.
Just because someone practices Dorje Shugden?!
Is this how a Buddhist should act like?
I do not mean to insult anyone but how can someone call himself or herself a Buddhist practitioner and be so rude?
Wow… some kind of apology.
Shameful and embarrassing.
Why would someone say something like this?
Some people’s thinking can be so twisted, just because someone practises Dorje Shugden so he or she has to be ostracised?
Interesting…
Wow, is this how a Buddhist practitioner should behave? By cursing and threatening someone else? (In this case, a Lama?!)
Why threaten others?
Some people are so weird. Why threaten someone else just because you don’t share the same religious views? I am a Christian myself but I don’t go around criticising someone else’s religion, where is religious freedom?
Doesn’t matter if you are Christian or not. These people don’t like Dorje Shugden but they come back over and over again to read the pages. Then they get upset because they read something they don’t like, and they send death threats to the people who have those opinions. So what, the people are expected to change their opinions just because you threaten them or call them names? What’s wrong with them??
Totally agree with whomever created the meme.
I think that what is written here is quite interesting.
看到这篇博文，觉得很伤感。因为，尽然有人口出狂言，不怕造口业的说出带有恐吓或含有威胁他人生命危险的文字。无论在佛学或是现今的法律，他是要为他所说的一切而负责。
请恕我在克切拉学佛的日子不长。但最基本的，我是很清楚知道，如果以上所讲的人是一位已经皈依我佛的弟子，那么他已经犯了皈依戒里面的恶意伤害他人的语言、嫉妒心、憎恨心、还有错误的见解。他是非常的自私，因为他人格的转变，已经不再让其他人可以安全与放心的相信他待人处事。无形中，这也让他造下不好的业。等时机成熟了，果报的呈现会让他受尽痛苦。。。而如果根据现今的法律 ，当被害人觉得他的生命受到威胁的时候，那么根据种种的证据，被害人是可以利用与执行他本身原有的权利来提控那个怀有不好的意图而利用言语或文字来伤害的人。由此可见，这个人是逃不掉的。很可悲的是，他们看不到这些。
其实，我们在学校里，大家一起上课，由一个老师教课，用同一本书复习，在同一间课室受教诲。但是，到考试的时候，每个学生的成绩都不一样，有的考得很高分，有的却很差。这似乎要看每个学生努力的付出与了解能力。。。而佛法就是一门更深奥的学问了。有些学生带着前世的印记再加上一定的功德以及吸取上师的教诲，让他可以很快的登上菩提道。但，有些学生却刚好相反。而慈悲与拥有纯净的法脉传承上师是有能力知道他的每位学生的学习程度。因此，我们慈悲的上师，詹杜固仁波切就会利用善巧的方式来‘打开’学生们的‘智慧窗’。但可悲的是，往往这一些学生不明白，反而还误会了上师。而且还不怀好意的，搅乱他人心，唯恐不乱。
在此的希望，那些曾经出言伤害过尊贵的上师，请不要再继续下去了。因为，我们不想看到你们会有不好的下场，无论是在佛法里的因果报应或是现今社会法律的制裁。
愿文殊菩萨大法慈悲的让你们尽早脱离无明。。。Om Ara Ba Tsa Na Dhi ….
《你》真的出自内心，忍心诋毁及悪毒的言语對侍一位一生只为救脱衆生离轮回苦，引领至就竟樂为已任的局個上師吗？哪該是妄心三毒在作祟，【贪】着别人的赞扬或凸显，满足自我。【嗔】心必起如得不到肯定，怒火攻心，燒尽功德林，宛惜！近兒【痴心】隨着助長恶力增长，造種種恶行，令恶果速成，可怕！咱有放下自我，停止被妄心所惑，真心诚意修懺悔法！最为上策！时时刻刻提醒，省察自心，遇事件应该昇起包容心，慈悲心，中庸之道對冶。如以偏激法，那將逺离佛陀本怀了。
願和合衆弟子常伴上師身旁，安楽自在，法輪常
A friend sent this to me last night. Li Wen said she got it from a FB page and I thought it was funny because it’s true. I’ve been following this thing and didn’t want to pass any judgement until Li Wen pointed out to me that this group or lady or whatever never apologised. What shocked me the most aside from the death threat is that at the same time this lady is “apologising” for her behaviour, she’s writing on the group telling TR to man up. She’s clearly not apologetic. I don’t think TR and his students should let her get away with her comments so easily.
To Snodgrass,
This is too much. Your reputation as a murder threatening violent hate inciting troller on the internet is sealed. You are really a bad representative of online Buddhists. You should be ashamed. Wishing such vicious acts against another human being is unacceptable.
________________
Dear Kechara House,
You should legally pursue this thoroughly. This is shocking to say the least. Snodgrass has to legally be dealt with.
I will donate towards your legal fees happily.
Saddened, shocked and disgusted by the slander, abusive and death threats towards our beloved guru, H.E Tsem Rinpoche by ungrateful students and Anti- Dorje Shugden. Calling themselves a Buddhist, but creating religious disharmony among the Buddhist community is such a disgrace!
It is very heartbreaking that Rinpoche has to endured physical threats, verbal abusive and manipulated by the ex-students for their personal gain. Like Lord Buddha Shakyamuni, Rinpoche never given up, he cared for everyone equally, without discrimination, with boundless compassion and patience.
May these people stop the harm/ attack NOW and start practicing the dharma, don’t waste your precious human body on messy worldly trivial things.
May Rinpoche be safe always, continue to spread Je Tsongkhapa’s teaching in ten directions for the benefit of all sentient beings
Dear Lilyn,
It is true that Rinpoche has never given up on anyone, even those who has left the organisation. He continues to pray for them, care for them, do anything He can to show them love. We all see how Rinpoche shown love and care to all of us and the extend Rinpoche will go to care. It is unlimited!
People who have left, made a conscious choice to leave, it was their choice to leave. Since it is their choice, why do they continue to slander, make abusive statements to justify their choice? Why justify when you know what has been done is right? Perhaps it is otherwise, hence the justifications. Then again, to justify is one thing, but to carry out a threat is another. See how anger, jealousy, bitterness etc. can make someone do? If they continue to do so, they are creating more negative karmas that will only bring them more negative results. Why hurt themselves like this?
Having said that, we do take serious measures against death threats shown in the above post, as it dangers Rinpoche’s life. This is not to be taken lightly and we do all we can to protect Rinpoche and the organisation. Otherwise, the lineage will be broken and the dharma of our tradition will be lost forever!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and please continue to share so that people will be aware of this matter and share their solutions with us.
With appreciation,
Pastor Adeline
看了这几个星期Facebook 与仁波切的部落格， 让我觉得很心痛。 我跟随仁波切差不多快要 6个年了， 我只会告诉大家我爱仁波切。 仁波切是我人生中，我看到的说到做到的人！ 那么多年来我重来没有听过半句仁波切说过任何对上师、家人、朋友与等等不敬的话， 我只看到仁波切又是看到一些情景，想起一些离开了的学生时的祈祷与关怀。
是的仁波切修行多杰雄登， 克切拉的学生现在也开始了这个修行。我看到了希望、帮助与更多的未来。
为什么这群人要利用社交网络去攻击仁波切与修行多杰雄登的喇嘛？ 如果你们不忿，不明白，可以用你真正的身份来一起讨论或公开的举行一场国际瞩目的辩论， 千万不要像现在偷鸡摸狗的在背后说别人坏话与说出一些让人感觉不安的封杀令！ 现在是文敏世界，我们可以才用公平公正的方式解决问题！
亲爱的朋友们，虽然我们的路不同也不应该像现在胡言乱语的说一些不负责任的话。我们是要承受后果的。 话说回来， 如果你是修行者，大家就更加要明白我们的皈依戒里有说，杀害僧人是会破戒的，而且后果非常严重，请大家三思三思！
至于那些觉得混绕，又认识那是伤害仁波切的朋友我想与你分享今天在仁波切谈天室里我记载下的一些可以与你面对的问题校对一下。
当我们遇到这些憎恨者和他们企图荼毒人们的行为时，我们能做些什么？
答案：当我们遇到这些憎恨者和他们企图荼毒人们的行为，如寄上仇恨信件，散播恶毒谣言时，我们应该质疑，要他们出示资料、证据，并要他们解释这么做的原因和动机。同时，观察他们，看清他们的真面目。看看他们的成就，并将他们与那些被他们毁谤者的成就做比较，就这个例子而言，被毁谤者是仁波切。
我们能提出这些问题：
1）他们在“逃离”之后，是不是变成更好的佛法修持者？
2）他们目前是否参与更多的慈善工作？
3）他们的愤怒和抱怨减少了吗？
4）他们减少说闲话了吗？
5）若他们诋毁仁波切的方式，那他们是否无私地努力将人们带向佛法，或只是企图让人们放弃自身的修行？
6）如果他们离开后没有取得进步或变得更堕落，那怎么可能是上师或佛法中心的错呢，毕竟这两者都已经从他们的生命中消失了。
希望大家不要麻木跟随，一定要理智的分析。 谢谢。
Louise，
看了您的留言好幾次，覺得您的分享很真誠、用心。謝謝您！
這些攻擊已經有好一段時間了。我們從一開始就不斷地跟他人解釋，但還是有人選擇攻擊、破壞、毀謗仁波切和我們的團體，不顧一切地扭曲事實，甚至還威脅仁波切的生命，真是讓人百思不解。
有用心去理解的人肯定看得出這些出口傷人的一群，不僅沒有證據去證明他們的指控，而且他們所說的內容根本就是煽動他人的惡語、離間語，不是佛教徒的所作所為。今天不管我們是不是佛教徒，出口傷人本身就是無事生非、擾亂人心的壞行為，任何人都應該避免。
如果上師真的如他們所說，克切拉根本不可能有今天的成就，不是嗎？在這裏，我想跟你和大家分享這篇文章 https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/buddhas-dharma/who-is-dorje-shugden-to-me.html，希望大家可以從中瞭解問題的癥結，看清多杰雄登的禁令所造成的危害！
溫婉如講法師合十
既然前克切拉人选择了离开，就别再胡言乱语了，影响了他人的观点，造成了对克切拉负面的影响，要知道仁波切是做着利益众生的佛法事业，殊胜无比，你们的举动间接的造成了毁谤佛法僧，衷心的劝你们早日惭悔停止污蔑。
Yi Hwa, 你說得很對！他們口出狂言、胡言亂語地乱說一通；為許多人製造了误解和困惑；這是我們不能接受的。我們請他們閉嘴不是為了證明克切拉是對，而是善巧地阻止他們繼續製造恶業，尤其是中傷一位有成就且有證量金刚上師更是不得了。其此，像你以上所說，不應該讓大众產生不必要的猜疑或误解！謝謝你有力的發表！
其实看了以上的文章实在不能理解他们的思维。他们的評論有恐嚇和中伤的成份。我实在不能認同身为佛門弟子何以如此不負責任的做这些人身攻击，这可是直接影响到其他学佛新生，从而產生不必要的疑惑，这可是制造麻烦打击自己的修行，这又是何苦呢？
大家都知道詹仁波切付出一切从不言累的为了众生和佛法，仁波切慈悲無私的情操不会因为这些評論而改变或影响。而我们会继续支持仁波切希望延伸佛法至世界每一个角落，还願幫助更多众生消除無明。真心希望这些人尽快了解壯况，早日向仁波切忏悔道慊，以免累计可怕的因果。
Suet Moi，
您說的沒錯，他們的評論的確很明顯帶有恐嚇和傷人的意圖，而且他們還聲稱自己是佛教徒，是達賴尊者的追隨者，言行不一致，非常蠻矛盾。佛教的基本教義，例如十善業，就清楚說明惡語、離間語等等，是必須避免的，所以真正的佛教徒怎會這麼做呢？既然如此，他們不會想到自己的行為如何影響自己的修行，更不會去理會自己行為可能為他人帶來的負面影響。
仁波切的一生都用在弘法利生上，所有事蹟大家是有目共睹的，包括香積廚、藝術坊、出版社、影片製作室、花店、佛教中心、讀書會、禪修林等等。今天這些人選擇惡言相對，顯然想要影響大家對仁波切和團體的信心。老實說，有慧眼的人是不會聽信他們胡言亂語，但這並不代表我們就置之不理。作為仁波切的弟子，我們有義務保護仁波切和團體，讓大家對仁波切和團體有更深一層的理解，避免誤會，所以會不厭其煩地跟他人講解、分享。另一方面，像文中的恐嚇，我們就必須正視，並且採取必要的行動，以免惡業循環，讓對方累積更多的惡業。
在此也請您跟更多人分享仁波切的努力、貢獻，還有您個人跟隨仁波切多年所體會到的經驗，讓他們對仁波切和團體生起更大的信心，進而實踐所學的佛法，自利利他。謝謝！
溫婉如講法師合十
这些带着负面情绪的人出口伤害和威脅仁波切性命，是因为你们認为应得到利益或回報可是沒得到？是你们認为仁波切和其弟子，同修，朋友们没有跟隨你们禁止修多杰雄登？是因为仁波切大慈大悲，你们就可以隨意出恶语，威脅他的性命吗？從另一角度看，如果我帶恶意发心说你们堅持禁令修多杰雄登法就会帶来身命伤害，某某年就会终结性命，你们会有什么感受？如果我这样说我肯定不是佛门弟子，不是仁波切学生，更不用说金剛修学。大家希望世界和平，国家安穩，生命不受威脅的环境下持修和忠于个人的信仰和宗教，不是吗？批评，不尊敬，恶语伤害，僧侣性命受威脅是把佛教畫上黑点, 不想佛教傳承持续、发揚光大。伤害仁波切等於伤害格魯傅承，伤害祖师们的敎诲, 反抗上师依止心。罪恶极大。我真诚希望你们马上立刻忏悔，真诚的心向仁波切道歉因为你们伤害了一位大师，时时刻刻为他人着想，时时刻刻利益他人的詹杜固仁波切。
这些带着负面情绪的人出口伤害和威脅仁波切性命，是因为你们認为应得到利益或回報可是沒得到？是你们認为仁波切和其弟子，同修，朋友们没有跟隨你们禁止修多杰雄登？是因为仁波切大慈大悲，你们就可以隨意出恶语，威脅他的性命吗？從另一角度看，如果我帶恶意发心说你们堅持禁令修多杰雄登法就会帶来身命伤害，某某年就会终结性命，你们会有什么感受？如果我这样说我肯定不是佛门弟子，不是仁波切学生，更不用说金剛修学。大家希望世界和平，国家安穩，生命不受威脅的环境下持修和忠于个人的信仰和宗教，不是吗？批评，不尊敬，恶语伤害，僧侣性命受威脅是把佛教畫上黑点, 不想佛教傳承持续、发揚光大。伤害仁波切等於伤害格魯傅承，伤害祖师们的敎诲, 反抗上师依止心。罪恶极大。我真诚希望你们马上立刻忏悔，真诚的心向仁波切道歉因为你们伤害了一位大师，时时刻刻为他人着想，时时刻刻利益他人的詹杜固仁波切
Ai Nin
仁波切常教導我們要有耐心，要溫和；在遇到這種情況，要為他人講解，讓他們明白事實的真相。不管他們接受與否，我們有必要繼續為他們講解，希望他們有一天會明白，不再繼續製造惡業，讓自己飽受不必要的惡果。我們常常會遇到出口毀謗仁波切和團體的人或組織。當面對他們的時候，我們都選擇就事論事，提供證據來回應他們的指責。可是一旦跟他們要證據證明他們的指控時，往往得到的回應卻是更多沒有根據的控訴。
老實說，作為弟子的我們，在遇到這種情況，一定會想盡辦法來維護仁波切和團體的。今天不管大眾認不認同仁波切的理念和團體的運作方式，我們確實是在仁波切英明的領導下做了很多利益大眾的事。這些是大家有目共睹的。每個人都有自己的作風和方式，這是不可避免的，但硬要大家服從和跟隨某一種方式，實際上是不尊重他人應有的權益，當然也不會是佛教徒的行為。
今天的攻擊是朝著仁波切生命的安危來的，所以我們有必要讓大家知道，因為這類的攻擊是非常嚴重，而且不容有失的。希望大家在維護仁波切和團體之餘，跟更多的人分享仁波切和團體的貢獻，讓他們明白仁波切的理念，這樣就可以避免像文章因誤會而產生的威脅。
謝謝您的留言！如果還有更多的想法，一定要繼續跟大家分享哦！
溫婉如講法師合十
Please do respect a monk be it a Dorje Shugden practitioner or not !!! I have read about Tsem Rinpoche is after wealth, fame and etc… Just think about it ….why must he openly make a public and typically formal declaration about him is a Dorje Shugden practitioner and get himself into all these troubles until the extend of his life being threaten??? It is of no fun at all !!!
To speak the truth, I am among one of his students. Tsem Rinpoche is my GURU and I am a Dorje Shugden practitioner as well and I will go to hell eventually, according to those anti Shugden people around because I am worshiping “the evil spirit” , so let it be. This is my own choice and my own prerogative.
As a Buddhist with a compassionate heart, I will include all anti Shugden people around the world in my prayer for their well being and ask earnestly from all of you to stop bad mouthing and threatening one’s life. As a Buddhist we shall not do all these.
Peace On Earth.
Leonard Chia.
Dear Leonard,
You are right, why must Rinpoche made formal announcement that He is a Dorje Shugden practitioner to the world, and then being threaten with such manner, what is more shocking is how the Anti-Shugden people react in a manner which is unBuddhist.
We were taught refuge vows and to control our Body, Speech and Mind and have compassion and tolerance to others, but these attacks, threats and the words use against Rinpoche really shocking, it shows how much the ban has created delusion, hatred and unnecessary anger towards these Dorje Shugden practice.
If people does not agree with this practice, then why don’t they practice and be compassionate of what their Guru taught, instead creating negative speech and schism against another Lama whom they had never receive teaching or even being a student of Tsem Rinpoche.
If one were to logically distill all those unsubstantiated condemning, vulgar, abusive and violent online attacks or threats, one can surmise that the primary premises for those attacks or threats revolve around the ‘commentators’ deeming themselves either as;
(i) acting in accordance with H.H. 14th Dalai Lama’s instructions; or
(ii) fit to protect the innocent masses from greater harm of H.E. Tsem Rinpoche’s teachings and practice which are perceived as deviant and lies by such ‘commentators’.
Those premises are sorely lacking any rational foundation.
First, it makes little sense that H.H. 14th Dalai Lama (emanation of Chenrezig) would condone such underhanded offensive antics which thwart the basic tenets of Buddha’s teachings.
Second, even if one raises the fact that H.H. 14th Dalai Lama inferred Dorje Shugden practice as spirit worship, then one must also necessarily remember that at the same time, H.H. 14th Dalai Lama maintained that it is up to one’s choice whether to practice or not. Thus, such online attacks or threats would still in effect constitute direct contraventions of H.H. 14th Dalai Lama’s communicated position.
Third, logically, it would only be right to reject a particular issue with valid reasons or evidence obtained after thorough investigation. The fact that to date, such ‘commentators’ have only posted online, vague allegations (of purported deviant practices), vulgar imputations, abusive slurs, statements instigating hate and violence without providing any valid justification, proper explanation or evidence, it would not be far-fetched to conclude that the ‘commentators’ had not (and remain not bothered) to do so. If so, why hoodwink the masses with (the ‘commentators’) ignorance?
Finally, even if such ‘commentators’ have checked and decided to reject accordingly,
(a) isn’t it more effective to explain the basis of such rejection if the intent is to discourage or avoid deviant teachings spreading amongst the masses (rather than to resort to such petty and underhanded attacks or threats online)?
(b) how can it be said to arise out of pure (good) motivation when such ‘commentators’ band together in cyberspace to disparage those not conforming to their views, promote religious persecution with calls for ostracization of Dorje Shugden practitioners and even violence? Especially since no detriments were brought about to such ‘commentators’ (or anyone for that matter) through Dorje Shugden practice and instead there are many who can testify to the benefits as result of such practice.
Stripping away those premises, it is only plausible to construe that the actions of the ‘commentators’ are intended to distort and quell the ability of the masses to make informed decisions for themselves, undermine the freedom of religion and mock the freedom of speech.
In contrast, H.E. Tsem Rinpoche and his students have acted with integrity by patiently and painstakingly addressing the doubts, allegations and questions raised pertaining to the practice; from explaining the authentic sources, great lineage lamas practicing this Dharma Protector, rationale behind the practice to even providing justifications for their actions accordingly.
Further, it is evident that despite the unfairness of the situation and the incessant abuses, H.E. Tsem Rinpoche continues to tirelessly endure much hardships to bring Dharma to people indiscriminately and steadfastly keeps his commitments to his root Guru and the Protector.
It is apparent how unreasonable and unacceptable the current state of affairs is. Needless to say, the severity is compounded if one factors in the magnitude of negative karma racked up by those who continue to spew hatred and irresponsibly mislead others.
One can only sympathise and pray that they would come to realise the gravity of their situation and make amends before it is too late.
Dear Cindy,
What you have written is very logical and valid. Many will find your comment enlightening and useful as it provides people a sound basis to your conclusion.
We need more people like you who investigate, think and see things at a bigger perspective before making a decision, so that the truth can be revealed for the benefit of the public.
The fact is when one resolve into posting vague allegations etc., it is obvious that they do have any evidence, proper explanation, or valid justification on what they have said. When we ask for proof, we get more vulgar imputations etc.
Rinpoche has always taught us to be kind and patience, these are the best methods to use especially when facing with such statements. People make untrue judgement because they do not know what we know, so we have the responsibilities to explain, guide and make the real situation known to them. Whether they accept or not, it is definitely their choice and freedom, but we must continue to explain so they are given a chance to see beyond their perception.
Please continue to share your thoughts on your understanding on the situation and what you have observed on Rinpoche and His good works.
Thank you,
Pastor Adeline
This has been very upsetting and shocking to read!
Dear Rinpoche, please take all precautions for your safety as there is no reasoning with these bigots who are so consumed with illogical hatred. The negative karma that they are creating for themselves will take many lifetimes to purify!
My life has changed so much for the better from Tsem Rinpoche’s teachings and there is no doubt that Tsem Rinpoche works tirelessly to benefit all sentient beings. His dedication is selfless. Kechara has grown because it works to benefit others. It is inconceivable that some ex-students who had the opportunity to work and study so closely with Rinpoche are now the ones to turn so violently against him. I have only met Rinpoche a handful of times but never in my mind had any doubt that the teachings he gives are pure Dharma. I am very grateful that he is my Guru and that I can proudly call myself his student. He has received teachings from a pure lineage of gurus which he now passes down to us as his students. For that I am also grateful and humbled.
The practice of Dorje Shugden has benefitted me and many others. No reason to disparage a practice out of IGNORANCE.
To those who may disagree, they should remember their Buddhist vows and teachings. If they are TRUE practitioners, threatening or even thinking harmful thoughts against a sangha member and lamas will only increase their bad karma.
Tsem Rinpoche and Kechara will continue to receive my unstinting support.
读了这文章，让我想起了提婆达多的故事。提婆达多是佛陀的亲近弟子，
因为对佛陀的教法意见不合便起愤恨心，一心想伤害和毁谤佛陀。结果后来下去阿鼻地狱受苦。
到如今，还是很令人费解， 往往有些上师亲近的弟子，平时可以对上师赴汤蹈火，忠心耿耿。
但一旦在修行过程中受到某某委屈和内心的伤害。就会对上师反目成仇，怀恨在心，把爱变成恨。就把所有上师之前的佛法教诲和开示全部忘记和消耗。然而负面的心魔，贪，憎，痴全面显现出来，来毁谤和伤害上师。
业障显现！好恐怖！也令人乍舌。
尤其在金刚乘修行的弟子都知道对依止上师的心是永恒不变的，
在上师五十颂也提到对上师不敬和毁谤都要下地狱，是很严重的罪行。切记！
但还是不明白有些弟子还是一意孤行。
在佛法里我们最重要的还是要有修菩提心和慈悲心，俗语说：得饶人处且饶人。但愿这一小撮的佛法害群之马
可以得到三宝加持，以免他们下地狱。
看了这篇章，心里起了疙瘩，难道人的生命真的如此脆弱吗？
你们这群人憑什么去攻击一位高僧大德呢？简直是无耻，心里不平衡。
詹仁波切是一位非常慈悲的上师，他无私的付出，不求任何回报。仁波切对上师的依止心是无可否认的事实，难道这也有错吗？？
多杰雄登的禁令让太多太多的修持者受苦及受到不少的伤害，所以禁令应该尽快解除，让所有修持护法的人可以得到自由，这世界需要的是和平，而不是暴力。
祈愿上师长寿，法轮长转，法体安康。
我跟你一样感同身受，雄登禁令已为世人带来了许多伤害，也“逼”一些人去作出选择选择，要许多人在嘉瓦仁波切与雄登修持二选一。
很多人选择听从嘉瓦仁波切的劝告，这是非常个人的宗教选择，但选择了嘉瓦仁波切并不意味着你可以伤害雄登修持者。
不管是嘉瓦仁波切教的佛法，修多杰雄登的法门，都让我们通往证悟之道。我们都得修慈悲与智慧，没有哪个法门比哪个法门好，只有哪个法门比较适合我们，我们选了哪个法门也并不意味着另一个法门不好，也不代表我们可以去批评。
这些祈求嘉瓦仁波切长寿，同时却恶言相对雄登修持者，并没有把嘉瓦仁波切宣扬得爱与和平付诸行动，我希望他们花多点时间去听嘉瓦仁波切的法，不要在社交媒体里毒舌。
我看到这些人所写这些事情真的,一把火,联基本做人的思想都没有,畜生都会感恩,我们是人会做这些事伤害,尊贵詹杜固仁波切,这些人问问自己有帮了多少人做了多少好事,又有什么资格去批评做人身攻击,这些人你到底是道,毁谤三宝,損毁一个德高望重的詹仁波切,不管祂在那国外还是在馬來西亚,都一直帮助人们和众生。只有付出,不求回报,你们这一些人只要有好处,得不到好处就去上伤害人,你们有想到后果多严重害了自己也会影响后代子孙,免得後患無窮,受無的痛苦。就有千百種苦楚,也就是恶事做得越多,罪行所感召來地狱越多,所以众生輕視小以为無罪,要知道死後的報应是絲毫都要受,自己造孽自已受報,还会害人害己,回頭是岸,还来得及,问问自己良心,摸摸自己的心吧？
After reading quite some number of comments below, I feel relief that Rinpoche/Kechara IS GETTING SUPPORT, support in the way of EVEN THE OUTSIDERS see what is wrong with these haters and their malicios threats towards Rinpoche!
I am glad that people are understanding of Rinpoche’s hard situation as a Guru, as a Spiritual Guide and people understand some of the ex-students(you know who you are!) are being difficult after leaving the center and continuously creating problems for Rinpoche thought without us knowing! They set up blogs, write nasty articles to badmouthing Rinpoche, take things out of context purposely to feed their ego and justify why they leave.
If the ex-students think Tsem Rinpoche is bad, well, there are so many of us here still FOLLOWING RINPOCHE wholeheartedly and we are still the majority. Do you all think you all the only smart people on this earth that can so-called see clearly how Tsem Rinpoche is but we can’t because we are not as smart as you? There are still so many senior students of Tsem Rinpoche that know Rinpoche more longer than you, they are still following Rinpoche and becoming better and better! So are you telling me they are stupid too?
I know some of the ex-students too and they used to “friend” with me. IF you are a real friend of mine, if you were sincere to establish friendship with me in the past, why not now? Because I choose to follow Tsem Rinpoche and it hurts your ego? I am sorry, I never know this will hurt you. It was you telling me how great Tsem Rinpoche is in the past, but now you turned around and say he is bad? How this reflects you as a person? You are ungrateful and not a loyal person. I am sorry, I never know one can be so ungrateful to deny all the Guru’s kindness, not a single of the actions of the Guru makes you feel shame when you badmouthing him or even attacks him online. I feel sorry for you and you know who you are.
I am not to hurt you but I am just speaking straight. I don’t want my Guru to get any harm, please, if he is not important to you anymore, he still very important to us! Please don’t be so selfish! Move on already.
Dear Abby,
thank you for your thorough thoughts on this post and its comments. We’re all very affected by the attacked hurled at us in different ways. Rinpoche has it 1000 times worse as Rinpoche has been enduring the effects of the ban for the last 2 decades. It is not easy for someone to give everything up in his homeland and to go to India to get ordained and be told that his life practice and teachers are condemned.
We all have the freedom to speak. Why? It is 20 years of my teacher’s potential of reaching out to benefit many gone down the drain and the only thing which we can come together to bring the news of truth out to the world. This is necessary because we need to let the world know how much Shugden practitioners have suffered and on what basis the ban is so flimsily implemented.
As we continue to speak up and let the world know, we will be shedding more light onto the grounds of dark ignorrance.
PJJ
Dear Rinpoche,
Thank you for putting up the screen shots of the death threats made to you, known. This clearly demonstrates what Rinpoche has to go through each day since the BOD’s decision to practice Dorje Shugden openly. What is even more scary is that for the past 18 years, other Dorje Shugden practitioners are subjected to such abuses, physically and online.
I thank Datuk May for putting into perspective what does condoning death threats online means for those others who kept silent — being accomplice and agreeing that the death threat can or should be carried out.
Like many of the other students of Kechara, I will defend my Guru to the very end. Whether they are death threats or slander to / on my Guru, we will take legal actions against the person / people. We will expend our every efforts to protect our Guru.
There are many others who have not met Rinpoche or directly benefitted from the teachings of Rinpoche, yet supported Rinpoche strongly, thank you. Even you know how to appreciate my Guru, yet those haters have absolutely nothing better to do than twist everything they see into harmful content.
Malaysia, USA and Singapore all practice freedom of religion, and recently, there are many cases of religion disharmony and hurtful online “speech”, where those people are persecuted under the law. So I suggest more compassion in writing and more positivity in thoughts, rather than harmful, negative and divisive speech online.
Thank you.
It is really shocking to see that these people call themselves Buddhist but yet act as if they were the sons of the devil. Of course these peoples actions are louder than their words, because if you really hate Rinpoche why are you stalking Rinpoche?? That isn’t a nice thing to do.
What’s more you should keep your negativity to yourself as you are creating a lot of negative karma which will judge your faith.
Buddhism does not teach you to badmouth others or criticize others simply because they do a practice that you your own self proclaim is a “devil” You should just keep quiet as there is no proof to say that he actually is a devil. If you do say so i think you should stop Practicing Buddhism as the Buddha’s teachings are devillike not that of a saint or a holy man.
On a final note, Stop calling people bad names because what you say is what you get. What you say won’t hurt others more than yourself. Watch yourself because your destiny is judged by your actions.
Dear Pavara
It is sad that a group of people who called themselves Buddhists are condoning, and threatening people’s lives just because their target is practicing certain faith. I thought this kind of bullying are ancient practice, but it is certainly not the case. I don’t know how these people can live with so much hatred in their lives. They are burning with hate toward someone they never met or someone that has been kind to them. Their lives must be really sad.
It is a sad and worrying state of affairs when a high lama is threatened, a sign of the Kaliyuga for sure. These people on the internet and from around the world condemn and violently threaten great practitioners such as His Eminence Tsem Rinpoche… for no other reason than carrying on the practices and commitments that he received from his Gurus.
Rather than becoming involved with the issue of they should be concentrating on the practices given to them by their own Gurus. But i guess that the negatives qualities and states of mind…including that of thinking ill against a holy monk, and embodiment of the Sangha Jewel…actually all Three Jewels. One of the refuge commitments across all schools of Tibetan Buddhist thought is to regard anyone wearing the robes of a monk/nun as the actually Sangha Jewel. So this type of behavior shown by others who threaten the life of a monk contradicts taking refuge itself.
In my mind i don’t doubt that these people making these accusations are not even practicing Buddhism as there is a difference between KNOWING about Buddhism and PRACTICING Buddhism. They have grabbed onto something and gone all the way with it, but in a terribly negative way. In what way is spreading hate, vitriol and threatening others let alone a monk in any way related to Buddhist practice? It’s not. These people try to show the world that they are practicing Buddhism, but they are not, they demean the Dharma, real practitioners such as high lamas, and even those who follow them. I feel terribly terribly sorry for them as the negativity they are accumulating with haunt them for lifetimes to come.
Dear Pastor Niral,
Yes, in the age of the Kaliyuga or what some call the degenerate times, the 3 poisons are heavily at play influencing the deluded minds of sentient beings. People tend to be extra obnoxious, rude and egocentric which lead to abusive behaviours and an outburst of violence. Therefore, having a steadfast and right spiritual practice will certainly curb our delirious behaviours, which leads to the next point. For those who are familiar with how Dorje Shugden arose, the mighty protector was born out of vajra anger (that to me does not really fit squarely into any of the 4 types of births) – a chaotic energy that swims in the ocean of emptiness. It is symbolic of the samsaric era that we all live in, a dimension that Dorje Shugden is much needed to help. He is like a beacon of light that transformed and manifested amidst chaos and confusion, an emanation of the Buddha of Wisdom itself.
And certainly, those who bring the light to the world like Rinpoche will be questioned and chastised by the opposer. And for those who practice the teachings of the Light will encounter many resistance and obstacles within and without. As such, through this understanding, we can infer how big a role Dorje Shugden will play in the coming times that the Dalai Lama himself has to be the role that bans this protector, the bringer of Light.
From my observation of this hate group “We Need To Talk About Shugden” on Facebook, this group has nothing positive comes out from them. There is no constructive criticism, no solution, no moving forward. Only pure negative energy, blame, spread hatred, gossip, and slandering.
In my opinion, the worst thing this group has ever done is incite hatred into people’s mind stream. By doing so, they encourage others to cyberbully online and the latest incident: someone is issuing death threats. If Dorje Shugden practitioners are physically hurt or killed, this hate group is responsible for it because they spread the hatred and incited the violence.
And those who “work closely” with this hate group, including some ex-Kecharians, if there is anything happened to our Guru Tsem Rinpoche, you are also held responsible because you are involved and helping them to spread the hatred and cause harm onto others. Please be kind and stop harming others. Isn’t that what we want to strive for when we become a Buddhist?
If the group is indeed designed to help the people who want to “survive” the cult of Dorje Shugden, then please offer some real help, and not not gossiping and slandering because it will not help anyone. Find a centre with your favourite Buddha, do your practice and be happy.
It is so ridiculous and terrible to know someone has posted a death threat on Rinpoche’s blog just because of religion practice!
Religion practice is everyone birthright, no one should or can condemn and discriminate other religion practitioners as this can cause disharmony and violence. In buddhism, Lord Buddha taught us to practice compassion, tolerance and peace and loving kindness to all sentient beings and definitely not killing and harming others as heavy negative karma will be created. So beware of your speech and action!
As Lord Buddha has once said, “Sentient beings do not understand the law of cause and effect, for all seek joy and shun suffering, they do not except themselves in following virtue and avoiding suffering. Realizing that the law of cause and effect holds true both within this life and next, one should guard one’s acts or conduct, as per its cause mentioned hereunder: According to the Buddhist conditions, the hot hells of the lowest realms of existence are the places where beings will go, in accordance to the description given by Nagarjuna on his condensed teachings from the Sutras: There is no limit to the great sufferings that the performers of the “Non-virtuous had done. Once they entered these hot hells here, “the evil beings” have the clairvoyant ability to remember the non-virtuous deeds of their previous lives. As soon as such an act is done and remembered, weapons appear and they will kill each one another. In one day, these beings it seem die three hundred times, each time to be reborn again the same here. There is no limit to the great sufferings that they have to endure. Beings who spend much of their lives in killing, like the butchers, murderers, killers etc., are said to be reborn in this realm. These beings are said to have large bodies and delicate skins. By means of the projection of their “Karma”, lines are drawn on their skins with red hot pokers, then their flesh is cut along these lines. It is said that committing one of the “five heinous crimes” is the cause for rebirth here. No one should encourage others to hurt, harm, torture or to take the life of any living being, not even an insect or an animal, for to do so results in the worst of non-virtuous karma, don’t say that especially the one who is going to be harmed, is regarded as a “Sanga or a Bodhisattva”, who has the qualities of the Buddha-mind, wisdom and compassion for all living beings, and are working to release them from the fetters of karma and the kleshas. Such is the ambition of our compassionate Tsem Tulku Rinpoche, where all his actions have been directed and concentrated towards this ultimate goal!!! Om Mani Padme Hung.
“Dear Uncle Eddie, thank you for your comment. I knew you are worried about Rinpoche’s safety. You told me two days when you read through this article until 3am, because you want to make each of the sentence they wrote. You are very worried about Rinpoche and don’t understand why some people do this kind of thing to Rinpoche. You cannot believed that someone want to kill Rinpoche. You cannot sleep well after you read this article. I can understand your concern. I really hope all those people who attacked Rinpoche can stop immediately. I pray for it! Uncle Eddie, take care of yourself. “
with folded hands, Pastor Yek Yee
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Uncle Eddie, one of the oldest student of H.E.Tsem Tulku Rinpoche. Uncle Eddie already 75++year old this year, he is volunteer in Puja House 6 days a week by driving himself. Not complain at all, just do his work quietly.
However, Uncle Eddie told me two days ago, he cannot sleep well after read up the article until 3am. He very worried about Rinpoche’s safety.
I really hope all the attackers can read my comment here, your irresponsible statement made an elder student like Uncle Eddie who already 75++ years old worried about his Guru life. Because your threaten statement make his Guru life not safe. Do you have any sympathy towards an elder uncle like him?? Why you want to make a 75 years old uncle cannot sleep because your irresponsible words? Please think about it, what are you do towards a guru is right? Please pass your answer to this uncle who worry so much now!!!
Wow. Are all these Anti-Shugden people have nothing better to do ? At first talking bad about Rinpoche, spilling vulgars everywhere like nobody’s business, spamming Rinpoche on twitter, then now death threats. All these negative actions and you call yourself a Buddhist. That is not the kindness and compassion we learn in Buddhism. Anti-Shugden people always say that Dorje Shugden practitioners are bad but how good are they. Is writing all these nasty comments what they consider good ? Definitely not! Our actions reflects our practice. Then these Anti-Shugden people have no rights to say that we are bad.
Rinpoche has done so much for everyone of us. Just look at the results of Rinpoche’s work, it benefitted so many sentient beings, not just cheap talks, there are results. Rinpoche doesn’t care about whether if we are white, black, yellow, Christian, Muslims, Buddhist, etc, he has equal love and kindness for every sentient being.
Here’s a blog post of how kind Rinpoche is : “ Rinpoche Saving Lives In Hospital “ : https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/personal-attendant/rinpoche-in-hospitals.html
Would you do that to someone you merely know ?
To me, what Patricia Snodgrass wrote is unacceptable and disgusting. She’s just a perfect example of a very selfish person who did not get what she wanted, turned around and bit those who has been kind to her. How can she be so ungrateful to someone who has helped her so much, who has been so kind to her. Have she forgotten all the kindness ? It is really shameful. Tsk, tsk, tsk..
To Patricia, after all you have done, got yourself into a big mess and you’re telling everybody to leave you alone. Sorry to tell you that the world doesn’t works like that, you have to be responsible for your own actions. That’s why you have to think of the consequences before you post something online. Threatening someone’s life is a very serious matter and you can be charged for that. That is why anger can screw you up, you can’t think straight when you’re angry. I suggest you write an official apology letter and I hope you find peace. ☺
This blog post shows everyone what Dorje Shugden Practitioners has gone through all these years and it is very difficult to be living that way. It is very pointless and brings no benefit but harm to other to post all these nasty comments, death threats, spamming nonsense , etc. It is just a waste of time doing that, time is precious. So instead of doing that, I suggest to have a proper discussion of the issue. That way, everyone can be benefitted by understanding more. Peace out. ☺
We do not condone hate speech nor statements which are defamatory in nature or which may incite any contempt or ridicule of any party or their beliefs. It also has to be stated that people’s comments go up live in this blog. Thus, we need to make clear that such statements made by such person or persons and posted at our blog are personal views of such person or persons and not statements which reflects our views and cannot be attributed to us or publication or republication by us.
OMG.. she’s like 60 years old… and acting like a 12 yr old boy on 4chan? she needs to grow up and get a life. If she doesn’t like what you’re doing, she needs to mind her business.
心痛!当一位充满了慈悲，爱心，关怀，一直帮助那些困惑的人和协助一切众生的上师一直以来被别人攻击和威胁!你们可有感受到仁波切的感受?你们真的以为可以为所欲为吗?你们认为这些诅咒随随便便就可说出口写在网页上的吗?那我可以告诉你们你们是错的!这世上是有因果和报应的更何况他是一位德高望重的上师!你们不是真真的成就者你们不可以做出这样的言行举动去伤害一位人人尊重的上师!!!你们是时候要修身养性去改变你们的心态和思想了!!!
@Katherine, 我很高興看到你的留言，謝謝你對仁波切的支持，作為一位新人；雖然你了解的不多，但是你卻因為感受仁波切的慈悲心，所以寫出了你內心的感受，很難得。你說得很對，他們並不是真正有成就的人，根本就沒有資格批評仁波切所做的任何一件事情。可是卻只因為個人被自己的恶業和恶習牵著鼻子走，做出破壞性如此大的壞事。我們在這裡也不盡是要攻擊回他們，反而是出於一片好心，希望這些人趕快停止這些恶行，以避免製造更加多的恶業。
I can’t help but wander if the whole point of this lesson is for Tsem to help Snodgrass. Tsem is nothing but compassionate to all people. She was at one point given gifts and money. I am sure Tsem cares very much even for her. Maby Tsem’s intentions is to get her away from the hate group. I am sure he has clairvoyance and can see she is heading down the wrong path for her future in this life and others.
I think this evil can happen to any one of us. Tsem Rinpoche “real guru devotion is ANY action that takes you away from your self cherishing mind “. The outcome with his statement on a reverse is when we give up on our guru and give into our self cherishing mind one of two thing happens.
1) we let go of dharma and live our lives selfishly. This usually starts out fun and we think we have earned freedom and beaten religious Persecution. We feel happy energetic and free but this is a slow death thou. Feeling and emotions of fighting our true intent in life (helping others) causes us to hate ourselves and others. The longer it goes on the worse we feel about life. Depression comes on so strong that sometimes this person takes their own life. The wheel comes back slow so the karma hits us hard.
2) we lash out at the person who tried to help us. We immediately try to defame him and blame him as the cause of our leaving. Sometimes even threatening or slandering him to shift blame away from us. This usually happens immediately after our failure and indicates we consciously know it is our fault. The wheel of sharp weapons comes back to us more swiftly and the person can usually learn a lesson from this one.
How kind of Rinpoche to help the wheel come back so swiftly to destroy the self cherishing mind. He may have saved her with his swift persuit of kindness. He is perfectly pursuing it wrathfully to lessen the karma of her actions. Such a great lesson to all about his compassion for all. Such a great way for all to see the outcome of what happens when we do the opposite of what we are supposed to do. We gain freedom by giving in and loose freedom by holding on. It is funny how we perceive freedom as a cage and a cage as freedom.
Tsem Rinpoche and his students are well within their rights to take legal action against her and the rest of the group. Compassionate or not, you don’t leave yourself expose to people who insist on your death. If I threaten your mother and father, I don’t think you are going to invite me back into your house again?
Anyway if these people are trying to destroy Tsem’s work, I think it is more compassionate of Tsem to take legal action against this group so he can protect his organisation who will help a lot of people like me and you.
If someone were to take my mother and fathers lives i would prosecute them to the full extent of the law.. yes 🙂
More important than the action i did back towards them is the motivation. I would do it not out of anger but with compassion. People are either in your head or your heart. I would not let them live in my head because it may destroy me.
Instead i would visit the person in jail and even put money on their food bank. I would try to spread dharma to them in jail by example. The wheel of sharp weapons had returned to them and they will suffer for their actions.
I have taken the vow to keep coming back again and again until all beings are enlightened. No everyone BUT my parent’s murders… Everone period. I think of it as the ultimate organ doner. Im sure people in my past lives have harmed me worse than them. It’s all been done before.
Compassion beats anger every time. Anger is darkness and compassion is light. Darkness can’t destroy light. Light always dispels the darkness.
Motivation, motivation, motivation. I would never believe anyone who says Tsem had a anger filled thought when he posted this or wanted us to go after them with torches and pitchforks. He is a Rinpoche filled with compassion 🙂
Everything you say is true Robert but first you put them in jail, to stop them from creating more negative karma for themselves. Then you visit them and put money in their food bank 🙂
It is indeed very sad to see a Protector practise can get so out of hand that many of the Buddhist practitioners seemed to have lost the ultimate goal to spiritual practise that is transforming their mind to become a better person. To cause no harm to other sentient being be it physically, thinking or speech.
Internet has given us freedom to share our opinions. But a word can mean many meaning to different people from different background and different perspectives. A wrongly chosen word can bring many unintended harm. Which can be viral once shared and is very very bad and very disturbing.
Spiritually, if one thinks the other is practising a wrong practise or a practise that is contradictory to his/her own practise, and thinks the other person has a obscured mind, isn’t it better to perform more sadhanas or pujas for the other person, so that the other person can gain more merits to clear his/her obscured mind?
With more sadhanas or pujas, if the obscured one is the first person, the merits will help to clear of his/her own mind. If the obscured one is the other person, the merits will help clear of the other person’s mind.
Dear SL Boon,
Peaceful methods to address each others differences is the only way if we sincerely want to co-exist harmoniously. Not only are the younger members of Kechara deeply affected by this threat, the older members are also mentally distressed by it. Who would ever imagine that learning Buddhism would lead to verbal abuse and life threatening threats?
Using abusive language is not acceptable and not constructive at all. And death threats such as this needs to be stopped out of compassion for them who are collecting a tremendous amount of negative karma and also for the safety of our guru. Due to the nature of their webpage in Facebook, if you read all their contents, they encourage very negative conversations which are more destructive than constructive. This is very dangerous because this will incite others who have violent tendencies to hurt those whom they are verbally bashing on.
All of the people involved in this abusive conversation are eloquent in rejoicing when others’ suffer. The evidence is very clear and everyone involved needs to take responsibility for what they’ve written leading to this death threat. Religious discrimination is illegal in Malaysia and in most democratic countries.
Dear Boon,
I remember that you had expressed your concern to me as to why our Guru has been given the death threat. We discussed this together. Then you decided to write this comment.Thank you Boon for this comment.
Even though you are new to Dharma and Kechara, I am happy to see that you realize that the practice of Dharma should involve peaceful means and methods of transforming one’s mind, as ultimate peace is the goal we seek.
However, when people,in relation to others who are in Dharma, start to criticize and villify and even issue death threats on practitioners and holy beings whose practice is different from theirs, their incendiary words may influence and provoke negative reactions and even violence from others. This is when we cannot keep quiet and hope for the whole ugly matter to just disappear. Safety and lives are at risk. Minds of practitioners of the practice( and the practitioners) being condemned may be negatively influenced to be swayed in the wrong direction.Spiritually, this will be to their detriment, as they will become lost and confused.
Hence, when so much is at stake, we need to speak up and show up those who have criticized so negatively and with dangerous consequence. We need to stop them from further negative speech and from suffering the consequences, from the dharmic point of view, of their wrong speech, coming from wrong views.
难以想像曾经受惠于詹杜固仁波切的恩惠的人可以如此口出狂言批评一为高僧大德，一位默默付出利益众生而从来不求回报，仁波切所传授的使命只有一个，那就是要看到他人透过佛法修行，多杰雄登护法修行达到在身心灵上有转化。
我没有很亲近仁波切，但是仁波切给予我的关怀，慈爱就像父亲母亲一样的疼爱，对我的照顾衍生到我家人，是全面的，绝对不是为了要讨好我们而要求任何的回报与帮助而做出的表面动作而已。我看到仁波切对任何的学生，相识或素未谋面的人都给予一样的帮助与关怀。
难道就因为仁波切的上师依止心保留了多杰雄登护法的传承而要承受你们一般凡夫俗子的恶言攻击以及恐吓吗？？ 批评的语气最近也成了暴力，危及我的上师詹杜固仁波切的生命。在他们的威胁言论里严重表示，如果仁波切一再坚持多杰雄登护法修持，仁波切会被杀死，这一些对仁波切造成的生命威胁是不能被接受的。
实在有太多的人因为多杰雄登的禁令受了很多的痛苦，有妻离子散，家破人亡，被鄙视，被欺压等等。。这一些背后看不到的惨剧并不是任何人想象的到的。
你们这一些一直在网络上散播谣言，中伤他人的行为就犹如禽兽一般要不得。有没有想过有朝一天他人或是不同信仰，不同修持法门的人对你们的上师说出同样一番的话，你们又会如何呢？？这些误导性和盲目的言论严重导致一位高僧仁波切的性命被威胁， 停止运用一般的常识来判断事情，人云亦云是要不得的行为，如果没有正确的认识，或是没有基础常识那就互相尊重他人的选者以及护法修持。
我希望这些暴力将停止！你们一群无知的组群不要再造下深重的恶业给自己陷入无可翻身之地。
对啊，这些不负责任的键盘战士只懂得躲在荧光频前面散播仇恨和误导性的言论，意图破坏仁波切的名誉，还恐吓詹杜固仁波切的性命。
难道修持雄登就应该受到如此的对待吗？这些口出狂言的人，说自己是佛教徒，是嘉瓦仁波切的弟子，我个人认为如果是真正跟随嘉瓦仁波切的弟子，不会做出与佛法鼓吹的慈悲与智慧背道而驰的事。
嘉瓦仁波切常跟世人宣说不管任何宗教信仰，大家应该互相容纳互相接受，一起共创和平与爱的世界。我相信这“大家”也包括修持雄登的朋友。
在这娑婆世界里已经有太多无法避免的痛苦了，何必再去增加呢？但愿这些口出狂言的键盘战士停止散播仇恨，也不要再抹黑正在为世界和平努力的上师和修行人。
是的，赞同你所说在这娑婆世界里已经有太多无法避免的痛苦了，真的没有必要再去增加，而是应该朝向世界和平努力的上师和修行人身上。这些口出狂言的键盘战士是时候想一想如何运用自己的长处去真正利益有需要帮助的人，停止散播仇恨，你们的下一代以及未来也在你们的掌握中。
This is truly a bully! Some of the person who commented / criticize & even threaten Rinpoche , they have actually received kindness from Rinpoche. And now, this is how a kind person being repaid? This show what kind of person she is.
Just because we are believing in Dorje Shugden, just because Rinpoche practice Dorje Shugden which was given by His own Guru, Rinpoche got the harass , threat, criticize! It is fair? It is really what a human will do or should do? Where is the morality?
Dorje Shugden Practice, is not a newly created religion. It is a religion that have a history of at least 400 years old. The practice that even the H.H Dalai Lama himself have practiced. A practice that so many high Lama believing, devoting and practicing for many reincarnation.
A person do not have religion, do not even study properly the religion, what kind of motive she / he have to harass a high knowledge teacher. And worst a bunch of people who do not even check who he /she is, sing same song with the person. It is worth to create bad speak karma like this? It is worth to destroy own reputation just for the shake of online idle chatting . Think carefully before the wheel of sharp weapon return!
Dorje Shugden practitioner, have been bullied, silent by the so call authority for long time. How much longer they wanted to step on own people? Discriminating own people! And at the other hand, show to the world they are victim, they want freedom. What kind of freedom they talking about when they ownself, own ethnic have practice discrimination and religion apartheid !
I hope, people who have read this article, will do research on who is Dorje Shugden before going to the conclusion or harassment. A person who have wisdom will not blindly follow and did things to harm others!
I am sorry they are making death threats. It is crazy to me that they think the “Core values of Buddha” are not represented by Shugden practice, when they themselves are the ones who want to kill. Buddha said not to kill, so what are they about? They think it’s okay like when the merchant gets killed in the Jakata tale, but that is the exception not the rule; they think all day they are supposed to try to end this practice and do nothing else. Rinpoche, I do not know if you are still a citizen of the U.S. but if you are maybe you should contact the State Department or something?
I was just told that one of Rinpoche’s students who is under 18 read about the threats to Rinpoche’s life and was very shaken up. Her grandmother had to talk to her twice to calm her down because she was disturbed by the violence. She said she could not understand why people want to kill anyone, and why people would want to kill Rinpoche.
People really should be more careful with their words. There are so many minors on Facebook and Twitter and these types of comments and threats are so irresponsible. It affects kids’ minds to see grown-ups behaving and talking like this.
This is disgusting. These people call themselves Buddhist but all their actions only create or add to disturbance. It’s one thing to go online and express your views but their views never bring harmony or unity. It only makes people angry, upset or put their lives in danger.
And now they are disturb the minds of children and minors which is unacceptable. Sorry but this kind of behaviour is subhuman.
That is right, Jason Wu. Even if one chooses to follow the Dalai Lama’s ban on Dorje Shugden practice, it need not be executed with so much of violence, anger and discrimination. A little bit more of tolerance and respect is well within the scope of logic, reason and compassion. Why so mean? Why resort to death threats?
I am so sorry to hear of this news, Pastor Jean Ai. I hope that this minor is feeling fine now after being pacified by her grandmother. The thing is, people who only focus on their own grievances and personal issues have no room for social responsibility. Although they claim to be supportive of the Dalai Lama, I very much doubt their sincerity and one wonders if it is just a smokescreen for their vengeful hidden personal agendas.
Pastor Jean Ai, I had to spend the whole of yesterday being with my granddaughter as she was very upset that people wants to Kill an lama and adding to her traumatic experience, the Lama is her Guru.
She is alright now and is resolved to recite Dorje Shugden mantra whenever she is disturbed by such vicious attacks on Rinpoche. The antidote was given by her sibling who told her to recite DS mantras and that she will feel better.
May DS bless them to be forever true to their chosen faith in DS and Rinpoche.
The irony is – after running a hate group that is causing so much worry and distress to so many people just because they are practicing Shugden, the Hate Group – We Need to Talk About Shugden who condoned threats to our lama’s life is saying that we are causing distress to their members for not accepting their pathetic apologies that are full of justification to make themselves look good
I thought about it last night. These people behave like vigilantes and gangsters. When were they appointed to be the dharma police? Where are their qualifications to force people to conform to their expectations?
You know, they go to their centres and pray for all sentient beings. They talk about reciting the Heart Sutra, engaging in Tsongkhapa and Ganglongma retreats, etc etc just to look all goody goody. But it’s a sham and lie because the second they leave their temples, this is how they behave. They act as though Shakyamuni and karma can’t see what they’re doing or as though they can trick Shakyamuni into thinking they’re so holy.
Whether Shugden is a demon or not doesn’t matter to me anymore. They lack basic human decency. I look at their behaviour and it makes me wonder, who is the real demon? Shugden or them?
The fact that these group of people live to demonize, threaten and kill practitioners of Dorje Shugden doesn’t even make it an issue regarding religious rights anymore – it’s almost like you have even lost your basic rights as a human which is the freedom to live!
This concept of threatening, violence and killing is what the Tibetan leadership has incited within their people, which has now spread like a disease to cause more suffering to others. Why does one get hurt, denied their rights and threatened just because they practise Dorje Shugden? It is common knowledge that Dorje Shugden practitioners worldwide suffer tremendously, and are abused, so, if they claim to follow the path of Buddha, where is their compassion? Which sutra has asked Buddhist practitioners to cause more suffering to others, instead of taking it away? The longer the Tibetan leadership supports this ban, it is to say that they are condoning to violence, threats, killing, discrimination. Do they really want to continue to be labelled and associated to that nature – how does it benefit them, their people, their situation, their vision to actually work towards their goals? IF they continue to focus on such ‘small-minded’ issues such as imposing a ban, how are they going to achieve bigger things for the betterment of their people?
Rinpoche gets alot of violence, backlash and negative talk against him daily, but when I saw this indication of a threat to his life, I was saddened, shocked and frustrated. Because Rinpoche has done nothing wrong all his life, but relieved the suffering of others, and exemplified compassion, kindness and love in action. Rinpoche brought us the most precious thing we could ever have in this life but he is treated like a criminal. What is his conviction? Practising Dorje Shugden. Why harm someone who has never stolen, never killed, never committed any violence? Sigh.
If Rinpoche suffers, the person who wrote this comment will be implicated as a complicit because she is hinting that she knows something will happen, the people who supported her comment will be implicated and we won’t let it slide. I won’t let it slide. The fact that they had even allowed her to post it shows what kind of people they are.
Fortunately, the Government in Malaysia is democratic and unites it people from all walks of life and religious background. I thank them very much, and may they live long.
May my Guru continue to live long and remain healthy to continue turning the wheel of Dharma to the 10directions – his existence alone has relieved the pain and sufferings of thousands and thousands of sentient beings. What have these people filled with hate and despair, and only use their time to criticize others, done?
It is ironic that a group of people who claim to be Buddhist gathered together on social media to criticise a reincarnated Lama recognised by many high Masters of Tibetan Buddhism. Not because they are experts, but just simply because they do not agree with the practice Tsem Rinpoche believes in. And can you imagine receiving death threats because your belief is different from others? What a horrible world it would be if all of us start doing the same action to those we disagree.
Tsem Rinpoche has been working tirelessly to bring dharma to many for more than 20 years. I personally have benefited tremendously from Rinpoche’s teachings and received Rinpoche’s kindness. And there are many more who have the same experience with Rinpoche. Rinpoche does not deserve to be disgraced in this way and certainly not death threat!
Being a student of Rinpoche, it is disturbing to read the nasty comments made by people that don’t even know Rinpoche. And it is even more shocking to watch those who have received kindness in the past from Rinpoche to turn around and write in such a spiteful way to judge the practice that Rinpoche is so kind to share with us. If you do not believe in Dorje Shugden, wouldn’t it be better for you to respect others who do and at least allow others who are interested to examine it for themselves?
Perhaps it is time for you to examine yourselves with the practice that you claim you do. What is your result? This is what Rinpoche often advises us to do to check ourselves out to know if we are on the correct practice. Regardless of what religion it may be, a spiritual practitioner if practice sincerely would gain results such as tolerance and acceptance of others to begin with, and bring peace and harmony to others.
Have you gained these qualities?
Jennifer these people are very scary. They hate someone they have never met and want him to die. What kind of evil people thinks like that?!
Jason, I believe these people have anger issues. When they experience things that do not match with their expectations, they become angry and react to it. It has become a common behaviour to express our thoughts and emotions on social media …. since we do not physically confront the other party in person, we can say what we like without having to take the responsibility of our words. Something we must all learn to be mindful not to do.
I really felt so angry reading the comments and yet feel so sorry for them at the same time. First no one force them to follow Dorje Shugden practice if you like follow if not then no need to follow. I can’t imagine what kind of karma they are creating for themselves by bullying Rinpoche must be really bad karma. I truly hope they stop because that is really bad karma to say such things for a man in robes and holding vows. Rinpoche certainly does not deserve this kind of treatment. It pains in my heart. One is entitled to their own practice. Don’t like don’t follow.. No one force you.,
11
I’ve been reading this post over and over again, see pictures of previous student of Tsem Rinpoche, This student was so close to the Guru and I still don’t understand why he/she is feeling so upset and miserable.
When we made a promise to anyone,aren’t we suppose to fulfill it? Why someone must follow your religion when we have ours? Why can’t accept the fact and move on? Why must belittle someone when you don’t get what you want?
Why up to the extend of killing someone? And it’s a monk?! If u don’t belive in anything, atleast belive in karma. If u think you are doing good by killing someone then I belive there’s something wrong in your religion, because as far as I am concern,there’s no such religion.
Come on it’s 2015, you really need to relax and let go. Take refuge in something you belive, but don’t take refuge in a religion which teaches you to kill.Everyone has their promises, everyone has their own faith in who they belive. Just let them be. You have yours.
I belive in Tsem Rinpoche, and I belive his teachings is to benefit everyone. If Tsem Rinpoche can benefit lots of people ,then you should really step back and relax.
May my guru live long and continue to spread the Dharma.
Yours sincerly
It is rather obvious that the persons participating in this extreme flaming and even threats toward a High Lama, some of whom have apparently benefited from the compassion and generosity of H.E. Tsem Rinpoche or other Lamas, have views distorted by a severely large ego. So large indeed is their ego that they are putting themselves superior to not one Lama but many Lamas whose lineage goes all the way back to the historical Buddha. As other have pointed out, the flaming that they are carrying out examplifies their huge ignorance. They are not even doing H.H Dalai Lama any favor, whose ban on the practice of Dorje Shugden, at times, seems to be what this group is “defending”. This small bunch of people have pooled together, with the encouragement of one or a few wily persons to fan their “hurt” egos. If you are real practitioners, sincerely apologize, confess, regret, and stop. Mend your broken Samayas while you still can. It’s not about all the people you are flaming. It’s about you and where your huge egos will bring you to next. I pray that you will have the wisdom to realize this.
It is really sad to see that they, as Buddhist have to come down this low.
Where are the teachings that we are to apply to make us a better person?
How can one call oneself a Buddhist yet do the complete opposite?
Whether you are a monk or a lay person, how can you create schism and hatred?
What do you accomplish from this?
Make people confused and leave the Dharma?
If you don’t like something about us, why do you keep adding comments and talking about us? Just move on and do something beneficial for others and yourself.
Who are you to judge what other people do with what they practice?
There are many people out there who are suffering from non-religious issues, why don’t you focus your attention and help those instead of spewing hatred everyday?
Amazing how people can spend so much time talking and discriminating about something that is none of their business.
And the audacity to say ‘oh, I hate them because they practice Dorje Shugden’, ‘they’re disgusting’, ‘I want to chuck the things they gave me and have nothing to do with them’ ( the last I checked, a Dharma item is still a Dharma item, treat it with respect) and after all the disgusting things they say, ‘I wish them love, peace, etc’. Such hypocrisy!
YET, can go on and on and on about our Guru, Tsem Rinpoche and Kechara.
All these years that I am in Kechara, our Guru, Tsem Rinpoche have been nothing but kind, compassionate, loving, patient, forgiving, giving, teaching, full of wisdom. I have personally witnessed all these. My family have personally witnessed all these.
He patiently push us, teach us, care for us, remind us, cajole us, beg us to do Dharma and transform our mind to be better. Never ever once, I have seen my Guru do the opposite. Never…
In ANY relationship or organisation, friends and people come and go. There will be those who left because they are unhappy or they want something else. But that doesn’t mean these people can spread lies, rumours, hatred.
Prove it or else stop feeding people with your unhappiness and make everyone else like you, filled with negative thinking all the time.
And by the way, haters, at what point are you in your life now? Take a moment and think. Still unhappy? Still can’t let go? Going deeper into samsara?
STOP threatening and spreading lies about our Guru, Tsem RInpoche and Kechara!
Tsem Rinpoche, Kechara and Dorje Shugden are growing BIGGER, no matter what you say!
We are not someone you think you can bully and shove negative comments down our throats.
This is so disgusting! By writing that someone might not see the end of the year – everybody understands! This is very clear and shows that there is a ban and that Dorje Shugden practitioners are under life threat! Many people have been hurt and threatened so this has to be taken very seriously. Malaysia is a democratic country with laws and rules and so is the US.
Condemning the practice of someone and even relating the practice to be punished by death is so disturbing. What is the goal in writing such things? The style of someone is clearly shown by their actions.
Why joining Kechara and requesting to be the student of H.E. Tsem Tulku Rinpoche? Rinpoche’s teachings are very beneficial for anyone who encounters them. The sole purpose is to bring long term benefit. Patricia has not only received gifts from Rinpoche and from many students but she has received the most precious: Dharma knowledge.
How can anyone turn against such a high Lama and His organization? Why should anyone tell openly his personal and secret practices?
What is the goal of a page like “We need to talk about Shugden”? What I see is that they only bring other people’s practice and religion down, openly. No one is forced to write there – it is a choice! To spread hatred and threats for everyone to read – what does anyone expect from doing so? Even so called monks participate, encourage divisive and ill speech and rejoice in doing so. What karma does anyone expect from doing so?
May H.E. Tsem Tulku Rinpoche live long and healthy. May all His projects flourish and grow. May this unjust ban end quickly and smoothly and may no one be harmed.
I agree with you Antoinette. We have the right to practice what we want and whether we want to tell the world what we practice or not it is our rights. Why would anyone judge and condone hatred toward a particular person and even went so far as to threatening his life just because he practice certain faith? It does not make sense. These people in We Need to Talk About Shugden group always said that they have freedom of speech and freedom to follow H.H. Dalai Lama. They said by posting this post of threat towards our guru’s life, we over exaggerate and threaten their freedom of speech by legal means. I don’t think we do btw. However, have they ever look within themselves that they are abusing and bullying certain group of people just because they are practicing Shugden? they want their right to be respected, but they never respect someone’s rights to practice the faith that his/ her heart desires. Really amazing group of people!
It is impossible for this fb group “we need to talk about shugden” to deny any wrongdoings. It is very obvious they have very ill intent on Rinpoche and expresses them proudly too. Now that they are exposed they are issuing insincere apologies and giving excuses and worst of all blaming others for their own wrongdoings.
The ban on the practice of Dorje Shugden is really the root of all evils. Dorje Shugden is not the evil. These group of people take advantage of the ban and use it to
1) feast their ego
2) propel their fame
3) vent their anger
4) garner sympathy
5) make profits
6) or just for some cheap thrills
All these bad pursuits at the expense of peace, happiness and harmony. If anything really bad happens to Rinpoche directly or indirectly caused by all these malicious intents there will be heavy repercussions on their karma. Why choose this path ?
They should sincerely apologize to Rinpoche and repent. Make peace and not war dear dharma brothers and sisters. This life is so precious why use it to bring yourselves down to the lower realms ! Even if you do not believe in karma and lower realms, why do you want to cause harm to another ?
When someone say or write anywhere offline or online telling me that my days are numbered and that I have to be careful in my current reincarnation, I call that a “threat” and the intention to cause “harm” onto me. I was quite clear to see that Patricia Snodgrass had no sincerity to admit what she wrote was wrong, caused harm to a high lama who is a living bodhisattva who benefited many.
For someone who received gifts from our lama, Tsem Rinpoche and return to bite him, Patricia Snodgrass is ungrateful. It shows she only takes and does not give back. It also showed unstability when someone manipulates what they had said earlier, turned around and deny the facts.
Tsem Rinpoche has done more than anyone we know for Kechara and the Buddhist dharma students in Malaysia and on the internet. What right does Patricia Snodgrass have to put down an esteem lama like him and threaten his life? Would Tsem Rinpoche’s students just standby swallowing such potential threats quietly and not do anything about it? Face the real world, Patricia.
Patricia Snodgrass is only one such example of people, amongst others who threaten Rinpoche’s life daily online or offline including hurling insults on Facebook, Twitter or anywhere else pertaining to his personal practice of Dorje Shugden. And sadly for them, they do not reason out with their knowledge of Buddha dharma to debate. Instead they chose to hurl threats and insults at Tsem Rinpoche with their blinded ignorance and gets carried away by negative emotions and thoughts that runs wild in their mind. They themselves will be suffering the return of negative karma for such actions. Aren’t they fearful of that returning karma? I wonder.
Please STOP all offline and online insults, abuse and threats on Tsem Rinpoche now, for he will be protected by his loyal students and he will not stop benefiting others in his dharma work.
To those who feel Kechara is over-reacted to the threat made by a few people on Facebook, obviously you may not know this threat does not comes from no where. The threat was not made from no where! The fact that they were mentioning about death threat to Tsem Rinpoche, it also means they are acknowledging there are threats towards other Shugden Lamas and practitioners. There’s cyber terrorist happening against Dorje Shugden people, click to see with your own eyes, so many vulgar words were made just because one practices Dorje Shugden: https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/dorje-shugden/will-the-dalai-lama-agree-with-this.html
And most importantly, this threat was made not on someone’s personal Facebook profile, it is a Facebook group, a cyber community. When you make such comments/threat, it is instigating hatred an violence already! Moreover, this group is hate Shugden group, it is obvious when you see the words they use to say about Shugden were not polite or even neutral words. None nuetral words but words that are hateful, disrespect and bitter. The words they use to call Tsem Rinpoche, were not respectful at all and were not even neutral and the words they used sounds like they hate Tsem Rinpoche. You may say that was not a threat but just out of concern, but the words they used to call and describe Rinpoche were negative, I can’t see genuine concern, not even a slight of it. So on this basis, they were obviously instigating hatred and we have every reasons to worry about Rinpoche’s safety and we will never take this matter lightly!
You see, I understand people have their likes and dislikes, even in spiritual, it will be the same, I accept and understand. But our dislikes or disagreement doesn’t give us the right to harass/hate/threaten. If Shugden people is so bad and deserve all the harassment and attacks, why don’t they lodge police report and come to the end of the stories?? Why attack Tsem Rinpoche because He practices Dorje Shugden? Why does this offend you? Offend you in what way?
I think these people are just using His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s name to attack Tsem Rinpoche. People always say Shugden is not Dharma, HOW ABOUT THOSE WHO ATTACKS SHUGDEN PEOPLE, ARE THEY PRACTICING DHARMA? IS HATE SHUGDEN DHARMA? When these people said bad things about Tsem Rinpoche, are themselves good people that practice the Dharma? If yes, why the threats? Why the negative words? Why hate Shugden?
The saddest thing is, one of the people who involved in this conversation, is a monk and even a Tulku(reincarnate lama)! Instead of educating the other members about compassion and patience, this Tulku involved in the conversation and instigated hate together with the lay people. Who are these people that involved in this conversation? IF they are better person than Tsem Rinpoche, prove it! They should set up a Buddhist group to study the Dharma, share about Dharma, go out and help animals and homeless, take care of people, fund raise for Dharma centers, like what Tsem Rinpoche does, all these are making the Dharma grow. Sitting in front of computers and making negative comments about certain Lamas/practices/centers are NOT MAKING THE DHARMA GROW at all.
I have been handling human resources matters for the past 8 years with the management of this organisation. Sometimes behind the scene experiences with ex-students will shock anyone with a sensible mind on the street. I am not just referring to students who volunteered, most of them received a stipend or allowances from the organisation. They are paid with lots of perks. I used to think in my very own secular mind that, this is so easy because we can just let them go as some of their behaviours are totally unacceptable for any company out there to stomach. If I had these type of attitude at my previous work place, I would have been fired long time ago.
However, over the years, I have seen my spiritual guide, Tsem Rinpoche not giving up on them cause everyone deserves a 2nd chance….and in most cases A LOT of chances. And the Guru will often find many ways to help them.
Don’t get me wrong, these are just some students. We have some students who have left on their own account but they are gracious about it and with some of them we are still on good talking terms. Some even return to volunteer and attend our activities. Like any organisation, this is a normal cycle, I get it but when some ex-students start attacking the “Guru” and blaming their self created miserable state on their EX “Guru”, it is very absurd!!! Because most of us who used to handle these cases who are still around the organisation saw & experienced how selfish and damaging their behaviour were :-
What do u want the Guru or the management to do when a student,
1. creates schism amongst your fellow peers and creates disharmony in the department
2. puts down other students just because they “think”, they are more superior than them
3. lies & twists the facts
4. solicits “certain desire” using certain resources of the organisation
5. is being rude to the older people of the organisation
6. is not performing at their work when they are paid to do so
7. puts others in a harmful situation
and the list can go on.
Do we want a Guru to close his eyes FULLY and say WELL DONE or do you want a Guru who tirelessly points out our faults so that we can improve and be better people.
There is a fraction who left but there are many more who stayed back in Kechara. And more are joining as the rest can see. Results is key here. A wise person used to tell me, don’t trust the words but look at their results. Words often have not much meaning. Therefore, anybody who is sensible will be able to tell what is good and what is not.
It is about time we start speaking out to defend our Guru.
Enough is Enough!
People that think that Kechara is making a huge issue out of these negative issues by Ex-Kecharians, are hugely mis-informed.
In life, people come and people go, it is part and parcel of life. Even in our own personal lives, how many people have walked away from us and how many people have became new friends with us? Does that make us a bad person just because some people are not friends with us anymore? Maybe in certain cases, but most of the time it is due to differences that makes one part ways.
The one person that I have seen stayed firm all these time is Rinpoche. Rinpoche’s motivation to bring Dharma to countless of beings will continue for a thousand years. And if there is anyone that have left the organization, then it is just sad to say that their purpose and vision has changed throughout the years of service in the name of Dharma… To say it uglily is that ‘They didn’t get what they thought they would’… and that has caused great bitterness to arise in them. Because one thing is for sure, Rinpoche never stopped spreading the Dharma. On the other hand, what have these hater done post-Kechara besides spreading more hate and malice.
In the secular world, what these Ex-Kecharians did will never be tolerated. In fact, in the secular perspective, wouldn’t you be happy to be free of a ‘bad employer’? Imagine if you were greatly pressured in your work place and you decided to jump ship to another company, the happiest day would be the day you leave that crappy office to start a new day in a new company, and you would never look back and continue merrily with your own life. And if ever there was a disgruntled employee, a secular company would have no qualms in handling the issue with legal matters.
But in Kechara, our tolerance level is high. Not because the people in Kechara are ignorant and idiotic, but because we practice spirituality… Many times the decisions made are not based on getting fame or profit, but how it can help the other person’s spirituality… and sometimes, even at the cost of Kechara’s good name, like what Kechara and Rinpoche is facing right now.
So why is this so? I can tell you simply, it’s because being spiritual, we know innately everyone has their good nature. But due to the conditions of karma… the karma that ripened upon them caused these negative outbursts. Some that left allowed this karma to pass and later return… while other that left continue to turn this vicious cycle of negative karma and end up no where in either secular world or spiritually. Ask any Dharma practitioner and they will tell you they hold no hate for these people… no matter how much bad they have done to Kechara.
But when it comes to the matter of our Lama’s safety, that is a whole different issue by itself. Let’s not even talk about the whole ‘bad karma for them’ talk… but lets look at the many people that will be deprived of Dharma because of these lot, thinking their ‘bruised ego’ is more important than the many people that will benefit from Rinpoche and Kechara. Or let’s not even talk about spirituality, but even in a secular sense… as a human being, how can threatening someone’s life, and attempts to destroy one’s life work – be something positive?
I hope these people will stop thinking about fulfilling their own selfish hatred, and for once, think for others.
Happiness comes when your work and words are of benefit to yourself and others – Buddha.
It’s about time they take the Buddha’s advice for their own happiness.
I agree totally with you on this, Sarah. People come and people go in life, that is a due course we all have to contend with. No one stays with us forever.
Rinpoche’s compassion is great not because we call him a Lama but by due merits that Rinpoche has only showed kindness especially to these people whom have left the organization on a bad note. Imagine the hours staying up to listen to their problems, concerted efforts in coming together to address their mischief – only to help them get out of their negative self, the money put into gifts and welfare that Rinpoche puts. The list is endless really. If we were to calculate in dollars n cents, it would probably an amount no employer would give in the secular world.
What these people are doing now to cause harm to Rinpoche, they have been doing so before they join Rinpoche, they are just consistent in what they’re doing now as of before.
As a student of Rinpoche, I have my rights and duty to speak up to protect my Lama. So please read our messages and understand the seriousness of things for we are not blowing out of proportion. It is serious and we do not want anyone to get hurt especially our Lama.
SuMing, yes it had been difficult for you to have been managing the HR of Kechara. Students who had been difficult during their tenor in Kechara had became worse when they left.
Reading your article, I recalled when I was attacked during our Liaison meeting for being arrogant etc etc when after the incident, I realised that it was all about jealousy.
As President of Kechara there were also occasions that I was treated abusively, and there was an occasion that crude and profane insults were thrown at me at very public places.
Rinpoche has always taught us to be compassionate and kind and practise the 8 verses of mind transformation. However at this point of time, I am prepared to leave my practise of mind transformation to deal with such adversity to the best manner I know how.
Dear Datuk May
I can totally relate to your experience of abuse. When we accomplished something, there are some people on the side that naturally become disgruntled though we never do anything to them. They attack our appearance, our faith, our behaviour, our speech anything they could talk and take pleasure in. I ignore them typically because I don’t want to waste my time and energy on them. Not everybody is like that and I do believe that some people such as yourself are genuinely kind. However, when these little jealousies have developed into threats to harm someone lives, I believe we cannot keep quiet. We must exhaust all legally possible ways to proven the harm from happening.
Valentina
Dear Valentina,
Thank you for your kind words of encouragement that we must not let these envious people deter our spiritual path.
You are correct that these little jealousies have turned uglier with the passing of time especially when Kecharians continue to do our best and succeed in our spiritual endeavours.
On hind sight it is quite sad that these ex students have not learnt simple good manners and not be abusive to some one so much elder than they are. Do not even mention mind transformation, talk about basic good manners and human like conduct. They have not learnt and in this aspect they have wasted their lives. That is definitely their choice.
It is moving that so many people are writing here to express their support to Tsem Rinpoche. Not only has Rinpoche tirelessly dedicated his life to teaching the Dharma and spreading kindness in every possible way (e.g. giving food to the homeless, taking a moment to show care to the abandoned and giving advise to the spiritually lost etc.), Tsem Rinpoche has been taking on so much disappointment and pain from student who came, took, left and turned around to spit venom at the one person that was most kind to them.
I was in Shanghai running a growing family business when I first started learning the Dharma from Rinpoche. Therefore, I am familiar with how the corporate world works: you don’t meet the standards and you are out….you don’t complete your responsibility and you are replaced. Therefore, the tolerance Rinpoche exercised with some of the students baffled me. Some of these students would not only have been fired in the secular world…they would not have even been able to find a good job. However, instead of appreciating Rinpoche’s kindness and make an effort to improve and do more, these students made a things living hell for Rinpoche and other practicing students.
Rinpoche never exposed any of these “insider” stories to protect these students. After all, as mentioned above, the secular world is a lot less tolerant!
One student’s behavior that I witnessed and really shocks me is of a young woman who needed to “have a boyfriend” to validate their existence and value. So, she chased after men in Kechara and I personally know of two relationships. Not only is it not becoming for a young woman who works closely with Rinpoche to chase men within the environment of a Dharma center and temple where people are nicer and would give her a chance, she talks about their intimate relationship openly and embarrass these young men. Eventually, these men left Kechara to escape their regret for getting into a relationship with her.
Besides causing trouble with men, this student spoke disrespectfully about other students behind their backs, creating much disharmony. I have personally witnessed how she would be really sweet and nice to a person (like buy the ice cream and Boost juice) and call use foul language to address them behind their backs. She is also very prone to using vulgarity in her speech from strong habituation.
I wondered why Rinpoche and senior students tolerated it and I was be told that Rinpoche kept such this student close because no one else would, not even her parents know what to do with her. Well, true enough, this student has left Kechara for a couple of years now and still does not hold down a job and cannot attract any decent guy to be with her…which is made more difficult with the drastic weight gain.
LiKheng, do not be mistaken, I have always supported you in your change from a successful business woman in a foreign land (China) to be a Dharma practitioner and work within Kechara, but my question to you is ”DO YOU REGRET HAVING SOLD THE BUSINESS AND BE BACK IN KL TO SERVE RINPOCHE AND THE DHARMA in order to benefit many sentient beings”.
Personally, I am proud of your choice although you may not be as independent financially anymore but being of support to you also demonstrates my working for the Dharma, it is truly a win/win situation which so many have professed but do not understand.
Glad that you remember the poor conduct of some ex students but more importantly is for you to learn from it and in the event (which I pray not) you should leave or quit, NEVER CREATE NEGATIVITIES FOR YOURSELF BY CREATING PROBLEMS FOR KECHARA AND RINPOCHE”. This is for your own benefit.
致一群口造恶業的人：一向以来，宗教都是導人为善，就算道不同不相为谋，又何需口出恶言伤害人呢？更何况對方是一位僧伽。我不懂这些人是否懂佛法，如懂，应知如此批评一位出家人会为他自己带来多大恶業及連累家人，好好利用你们这把口去利益别人再说吧！否則你又何德何能来批判别人，上天造人为何只给一张嘴，兩隻耳及眼。就是要我们多看，多听，少说廢話！但願丿你们有空多唸 OM BENZA WIKKI BITATANA SOHA!
@yoke chim yap, 我知道你出自好意，好言相劝这些人不要再造业了！可是，当我们造业深重时，心态就会被扭曲，然后做出种种中伤人的事情。他们是懂的，在我个人的经验中看过无数的佛友，在他们人生中最难过的时候，被仁波切扶助而度过难关，但却因个人的串习太重，没有办法接受仁波切的方式，一时气愤而离开中心。由于我报太强，在外诱惑太大；被串习牵着鼻子走。当年带着愤懑离开的心结打不开，便形成了可怕的心魔，看甚麽都不顺眼，之前的王子公主病开始一发不可收拾，如疯狗般乱吠。
这些人我之前都见识过他的王子公主病，一生人没有甚麽成就，依赖着宠溺他们的父母亲或伴侣在这裡耍赖。他们都是受高教育者，对佛法的书面理解，也超好，如果你有机会与他们来场佛法交流，你会惊讶他们可以将深奥难懂的佛理，讲得头头是道且分析得令你无法辩承，你说他们没有修吗？有；只是字面上的“修”，跟真正实践的还有一段大距离。。。
对，我和你有同感，这些人是太得空，无事生产，便来搞破坏。正因为这样，所以才不可姑息，以助长他们的戾气。太可恶了！试想，这些人离开了自己的上师和中心，已经是有问题的了，现在还抨击一位手无寸铁的出家人，道德在哪裡？还有廉洁可言吗？而且，今天他们可以如此目中无人、毫无人情地去攻击一位曾帮助他们的大德，还有甚麽事情他们是不会做呢？太过份了！
For all anti-Shugden people to consider:
(1) if you don’t like Dorje Shugden, why do you keep updated on news about Rinpoche? Why is what Rinpoche does any of your concern if you are not his student or a follower?
(2) if you don’t like Dorje Shugden, why do you keep contacting Rinpoche’s students? Why think that your nasty comments will sway any of us to act against Rinpoche?
(3) if you don’t like Dorje Shugden, why do you keep visiting Rinpoche’s blog? Why do you keep contributing to the traffic by sharing his links?
(4) if you don’t like Dorje Shugden, why do you keep visiting Rinpoche’s blog to read the teachings and listen to the videos? How is a Shugden lama ‘bad’ but his teachings are ‘good’?
(5) if you don’t like Dorje Shugden, why do you keep checking on the tweets and messages of a Shugden lama to criticise them? Why not just stay away?
(6) if you don’t like Dorje Shugden, why do you keep doing the practices that were given to you by a Dorje Shugden lama like Rinpoche? Rinpoche did not just suddenly pick up Dorje Shugden as a practice; he’s been holding his commitments since 1983 and was therefore a Dorje Shugden lama when he gave you whatever meditations you do now. And now that Rinpoche’s practice is common knowledge, does this mean all of the practices and teachings you previously received from him suddenly become invalid? How did they become ineffective and bad overnight, when they were effective and good before? Are the Manjushri, Tsongkhapa, Tara, Dzambala, Setrap, etc. practices that Rinpoche gave you suddenly wrong and evil just because Rinpoche practises Shugden? How are they wrong and evil when you saw they were having a positive effect on your life?
(7) if you don’t like Dorje Shugden, why do you keep talking about Rinpoche? Spreading his name everywhere? Making it very well-known that he relies on this deity? Everyone knows that violence befalls Shugden lamas and there is plenty of proof for this. So if something happens to Rinpoche, can we hold you responsible?
Dear Pastor Jean Ai,
Your questions are so valid. And I cannot help but laugh, not at the questions but the answer. All I can imagine is the truth for these “devoted” followers, in fact obsessive followers, is that they have NO life. And they totally do not want to nurture happiness within. They love the hatred and anger they harbour within. It’s actually hilarious if you think about them and how they are obsessed with what Rinpoche has to say. I bet you that visiting this blog and reading Rinpoche’s tweets and Facebook are their daily sadhana.
I have some questions as well for our dedicated Anti-Shugden followers:
If Dorje Shugden is the Devil and we all know that the Devil is BAD BAD BAD. In fact many believe the Devil can kill you and take you to hell, then why is it with so much hate talk against Dorje Shugden that these haters are still so active and kicking and so very efficient on FB and other social media platforms? Would they not already be “harmed” by the Devil???
Why are those haters on We Need To Talk About Shugden still so healthy and active, at least with their fingers on the keyboards? Being overweight and lazy with no steady job is NOT the doing of Dorje Shugden…it’s just pure bad attitude. If I dare suggest, maybe you should consider Dorje Shugden practice, clear your obstacles which is predominantly yourself!
How has the “Devil” Dorje Shugden “harmed” these haters?
In fact, let me share how much the “Devil” has helped me personally:
1) When my son was suddenly very ill and hospitalised, a few years ago, and it could never be clearly diagnosed what was wrong, it was the holy mani pills from Dorje Shugden prayers which took away his fever. AND the kindest “devil-worshipper” on this planet Tsem Rinpoche who came personally to the hospital with home-cooked food and love. Rinpoche did prayers (yes Dorje Shugden prayers) for my son. My son was well after and discharged. And to help me take care of him, Pastor Jean Ai, another “devil-worshipper” came to stay in the hospital with my son.
THINK! All you anti-Shugden groupies, does the Devil do that???
2) I am 44 years ago and started my TV show 3 years ago at 41, what was I thinking? There are so many better and younger talents out there. But yet, my show has become successful with growing ratings. Why? Perhaps I am talented but more so, I have the blessings of my Guru, a DORJE SHUGDEN PRACTITIONER and my Protector DORJE SHUGDEN. And I am now in the midst of discussing 2 new projects, and also the next season for my current show The Paranormal Zone.
THINK AGAIN! Would the Devil not lead me to hell? And want me to fail miserably?
In fact I know two ladies who were told by Rinpoche that they had the tickets to be celebrities, one for TV and another for writing, but they did not believe. I think they do have some “success” today, if you consider having a blog to be a measure of success. But if they had kept their faith and practise of Dorje Shugden instead of running and returning their spiritual items, they would be bigger (not in physical size) and have more success. More importantly happier. I do not put them down but I just feel it is a shame…they could have been so much more for themselves and to benefit others…sigh… real shame.
3) My mother, a few years back, had an attack of Bell’s Palsy. Thank Dorje Shugden that it happened in front of Rinpoche. Of course she went to see a doctor (Dorje Shugden is modern and knows there is medicine in this world) but her recovery was miraculous, even the doctor was shocked. She recovered in less than a week with no remnant effects. She recited Dorje Shugden mantras and did her sadhana daily. And Rinpoche also gave her blessings and did prayers (yes…again…Dorje Shugden prayers).
AGAIN…THINK!
IF DORJE SHUGDEN IS A DEVIL AS ACCUSED, THEN WHAT HARM HAS HE DONE TO THESE ANTI-SHUGDEN GROUPIES? And I dare ask, what harm has he done to the CTA? Seriously… find some logic in your anti-shugden actions and speech. Find some compassion in your human decency. Please I humbly request…Grow a brain and LEAVE DORJE SHUGDEN practitioners alone.
MAY THE BAN BE LIFTED NOW. MAY ALL SENTIENT BEINGS LIVE HARMONIOUSLY. May anti-Shugden groupies find peace within… OM BENZA WIKI BITTANA SOHA.
It’s sad and worrying after reading all these hate comments written by those haters. What made me even more worry is this
group of people claim themselve to be His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s followers. If the followers of the world most famous Buddhist icon act and speak in such a rude and vulgar way, what impression they are going to create on others’s mindset in regards to Buddhism that preaches kindness, compassion, forgiveness and acceptance? And I also noticed that one of the haters who is actively involve in hateful discussion that criticising other Buddhist gurus and creating schism among buddhists, is actually a reincarnated lama who came from one of the world’s most renowned buddhist university whom by his status and qualification suppose to teach real Dharma to lay people. If I were a non-buddhist who is still searching for my spiritual path, who only knows His Holiness the Dalai Lama due to his wide media coverage, I will be turned away from Buddhism after reading all these comments.
As a lay pastor of Kechara Buddhist Organization under the spiritual guidance of His Eminence Tsem Rinpoche, I always told to be mindful of my actions of body, speech and mind as whatever I do, as a buddhist and a buddhist pastor will have impact on others’ mindset in regards to my spiritual belief and the Guru that I follow. Any misbehaviour will turn people away from Buddhism, hence I may become a Dharma killer, and I will create tremendous negative karmas because of that.
It is shocking for me to have read all the negative comments made by these haters on social media platform which can reach out to millions of people. I do hope that these haters can put their time and effort on spreading love, kindness and compassion to the world instead of spreading hateful speeches that may create wrong views on people’s mind.
It is hard breaking to see certain group who claim they are a Buddhist practitioners would post such a comments and kept attacking Tsem Rinpoche and Kechara. Why can’t they just move on with their own respective life and do their Buddhist practice daily instead of making so much effort in order to insult a Sangha member and His organization.
Why can’t they accept the fact that there is a practice or an enlighten protector called Dorje Shugden is here to stay no matter what they say. Why do these group of people cannot see that due to this ban many families, friends have separated and all of these people what they want to do is just keeping their devotion/ faith and practices which passed down from their teachers or gurus.
And i do not agree some of these comments was saying that why do we spent so much on a mere statue alone and should allocate the funds elsewhere by helping people who are in needs. I am sorry to say that do you personally know us and if you don’t, i think it is not fair for you to judge us based on what you think.
For the fact that i know that Tsem Rinpoche and Kechara is working very hard in order to benefit others by bringing Dharma and in other needs daily. I feel so sorry for you all which behaving in such a manner and claiming yourself as a practitioners. Please, you all should STOP this behavior at once. Please do not insult or threaten my Guru Tsem Rinpoche and Kechara. Please mind your own business.
It really is sad to learnt that some online students that has been grateful to Rinpoche can just suddenly turn around and become a different person. What shock me is the words they use. Fine enough if they choose not to practise DS as it is their life and their choice but why make such rude and negative remarks? Respect is what is required here. Respect others choice of religion. Be kind. By the way why the big issue of which statue is bigger or smaller. Buddha himself would not have make an issue of this. When we see a Buddha statue regardless of size we see the Buddha himself regardless of statue size. Does this mean that a son or daughter cannot be taller than their parents cause it means “no respect”? Wow if the logic that someone more superior cannot be shorter or smaller size..than that means the humans of this world will be shrinking in size as years progresses.
@Dear Toh Cheng See, I feel sorry for you as a newbie in Kechara you need to face this kind of embarrass situation which our Guru Tsem Rinpoche has been facing so many years. Yes, I too agree with you what is the reason people attacked a high monk just because he choose the practice which his Guru given him. How can this people can complain and attack a lama who contribute so much in development of Buddhism from beginning until today? And what they actually contribute???
Let’s me tell you the truth, I believed some of the attackers who “contribute”this threaten happened may be people who I worked with in publication when I am still a senior editor and writer at few years back. Even though I quite new that time, but I used my own eyes witnessed the kindness from a Guru sent to a student. Rinpoche supported his students by sending gifts, brought us went out for breakfast, lunch, dinner even pack supper for his students. Sometimes, Rinpoche will give a surprise visit to publication. Rinpoche always play a mother and father role to care, love and support his student. For example one of our colleague never explored their sexuality to their parents, when they feel lack of support, Rinpoche always the first person to send his love and care to them. However some of them received so much care and love from Rinpoche, just because of something they don’t like about the Guru and organization then they chosen to leave. Yes the Guru was sad and disappointed but he never blamed the students.
What I cannot tolerance is now they blamed Rinpoche back, how can a human do like this? Rinpoche never fight back what other talk bad about him, however as a student can we let’s our Guru do like this? So I agreed with you, why should a Guru cannot choice what he want to practice? Because the practice his chosen you don’t like doesn’t means the practice not good or the Guru is bad…???Why you can choose whatever you like but Guru cannot? Why you can pamper yourself but got double standard to a Guru?
As a student, why you can blame your Guru, but you not allow other blame you because you make mistake? Why you can attack a Guru just because you don’t like the method he offered to you doesn’t means the method is wrong…you know who you are!!!
Cheng See, I am happy you defend your Guru by speak out!Even though you are new in Kechara however you can see the whole picture! I rejoice for your maturity and merit to meet a perfect Guru who give you the real Dharma!
Let’s us work together to protect our Guru be attack or hurt by others!
Thank you Cheng See!
Thanks Pastor. I am glad I am blessed to meet Kechara and I look forward to my future days in Kechara .
Great to hear that Cheng See!
Thank you Pastor for sharing your experiences with us. It is without doubt that Rinpoche has to play father or mother role to some of his students because the students have so much afflictions and negative karma to overcome. Rinpoche has to look out for every possible challenge and try to prevent or lighten the consequences of their karma ripening. Rinpoche doesn’t boast or talk about these things. He always execute his help in a very simple and humble manner but in actual fact he would have gone all out of his way to do something to cushion the potential negative results of the students. Rinpoche never makes a big deal of it or expect anything in return from his students. Instead some students turn nasty and conduct in a manner that have intention to harm Rinpoche.
Despite all this, Rinpoche never stops trying and caring for them. Rinpoche continues on tirelessly and skillfully to subdue or help them. I really hope they realize this and take a step forward to change for the better !
Yes, Grace Leong. It is true. Rinpoche never jump up in the stage tell the whole work what charity and spiritual works he had done for benefit others. But doesn’t mean some of people can hurt him in mentally or damaged his reputation in social media…what they are doing consider too much and mad.
Dear Cheng See,
It is indeed sad to see these people who are never by Rinpoche side, and who are just watching and reading from the computer can make such comment and threat to a Lama. They never care to find out the reason or read properly what is being describe in the post, and they blatantly make our assumptions and make a big fuss out of it.
Just because Rinpoche announce he is a DS practitioners, and these so called “student” are disgusted and hate Rinpoche for being a DS practitioner. But before they receive the blessing and kindness of Rinpoche and the teaching Rinpoche given to them are forgotten at a snap of a finger when we say we are DS practitioner, how could some one forgets and ignore such kindness so easily just because Rinpoche is a DS practitioner?
Their actin is seen by the world, and people can judge who Rinpoche is, and what these group of people are doing and also the reality of Dorje Shugden Ban that is so wrong that created more angry Buddhist rather then compassionate, tolerance and logical thinking Buddhist especially those who oppose Dorje Shugden practice.
This post, some hatred and death threat messages and some online responses on this post making me to think about the following:
* When we and the people who’s same stand/ideology/camp with us being attacked verbally or physically or received threat, we of course have to voice up and protect them. We deem this as something necessary and logical reaction to have. However, when those with different views from us, or those with belief we do not follow or even we dislike, we laugh at the reaction as OVERREACTION, EXAGGERATION, OPPORTUNITY TO PROMOTE ONESELVES….Basically we put down the group of people, we laugh at the fear/threat they might be facing or are facing.
* Attack, whether verbally or physically; threat, any threat someone is facing should be or should not be carry the same weight, when it comes to our loved one/our camp of people/people of same ideology (political and etc ) & belief; and people who come from opposite camp/people we dislike or hate/people of different ideology & belief?
* We tend to double standard, sometimes totally opposite stand, reaction and expression when people from different belief receiving death threat, harassment or defamation constantly. Shouldn’t be a threat is a threat, a defamation is a defamation, no matter who the person is facing it? Shouldn’t this be the way? Or at least we are trying to be less bias and put ourselves into the shoes of the other person when we express any opinion on that?
* What bothered me is when someone issues a death threat to someone, and all the people around, in this case people chatting under the same post, all keep silent. Let the person be, let the fear goes its way… This shouldn’t happen in anyway, because that’s how violence happen online such as cyberbullying, or bullies or violence happened in real world.
This reminds me of “The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don’t do anything about it.’ by Albert Einstein. This is so true and could be applied to the controversy and casualties happened revolved around Shugden issue.
The death threat H.E. Tsem Rinpoche received is not made up, but real. Those who know a little bit about Shugden practice, would know what happened to many who faced death threat and even physically assault by anti-Shugden groups, as highlighted by Kechara President Datuk May.
Anyone who is sensible would not be sit down and let your loved one or your Guru to get hurt; especially for the reason your belief is different and opposed by some in this 21st century when all talk about religious freedom, world peace and respect each other. This shouldn’t be happen. To Shugden people or non-Shugden people, or anyone.
To be attacked because of your belief is already very wrong, and being attacked and you are deemed not suppose to VOICE UP is something even more wrong. I can’t even protect myself, my Guru or my loved ones, my belief, my lineage when being attacked? I have no right to practice freely, therefore should keep silence when those oppose my belief coming after me, want to hurt me, instead I must sit down, be COOL, chant mantras and let them do whatever they want? I cannot accept and will not accept.
Not only that, we will not keep silence but SPEAK UP and condemn any actions (verbally or physically) done, will be done to anyone who exercises their right of religious freedom.
Thank you.
Thanks Wah Ying,
I agree with what you say here. As a residence of a country that practices religious freedom, we have the right to voice up.
I would also like to add that when we voice up, we should not put down others but to tell the truth and logic.
As a Buddhist who hold Refuge Vows, there are 10 vows and 4 of them is to refrain us from conducting non virtuous speech: divisive speech, harsh words, idle chatter and lying.
Tsem Rinpoche always tell us, we don’t speak to hurt but we speak to clarify so people can understand more. What I saw from social media platforms, there are so much harsh words and untruth messages attacking Rinpoche and Kecharians, and yet our wonderful president didn’t spew back bad words but politely express her worried and stance. For me, this is the different between a Dharma practitioner and a group of non-Dharma practitioner.
I fully agree with Wah Ying that we must SPEAK UP when out kind and most compassionate guru is attacked with such venom and vitriolic words. We MUST SPEAK UP ESPECIALLY NOW when our Guru has been threatened , in no uncertain terms, with the death threat.
No one in his right senses, can simply dismiss the threat, as similar threats against Shugden lamas and practitioners in the past, HAVE BEEN CARRIED OUT. Indeed much violence and pain against Shugden monks and practitioners have been carried out and continue to be carried out , as long as the ban is not lifted.
Having just read a great deal of testimony about dreadfully ungrateful ex-Kecharians, treated with so much care and compassion by Rinpoche, and about their most horrendous behaviour, and about their now being in cohorts with disgruntled ex-NKT members to spew hate and to support death threats and wish harm to Tsem Rinpoche, I must speak up even more so NOW.
What is it that Tsem Rinpoche has done, for you (ex- Kecharians)to bite the hand that fed you, and so viciously. In this age of religious freedom and in a country that practices freedom of religion, it becomes double jeopardy, on your part, to threaten harm and death on Tsem Rinpoche for practicing Shugden, a practice blessedly given to him by his root Guru.
The Bodhisattva that is my Guru, from whom nothing but endless acts of compassion and kindness continue to flow, from whom no word of condemnation has come in the face of all this, doesn’t deserve this!
Our main concern, as his students, is that he be not harmed and remain well, so that he can continue to turn the wheel of Dharma for the benefit of countless beings who need it. My main hope is that all of you concerned, desist from any further negative act against my Guru who is a holy being, a pure Sangha.
Friends,
I have been observing this death threat to Tsem Rinpoche issued on a particular FB hate-site and I would like to some points to make regarding my observations of this incident:
1) On April 4 and April 5, comments were made on a certain Facebook group referring to Rinpoche’s impending and untimely death. For the next five days, the person who made the comments added to the conversation, insisting that Tsem Rinpoche will be hurt for his beliefs. The Administrators and Moderators allowed the offensive comment to remain and in some cases, even encouraged more comments from the person.
It was not until April 10 that this person attempted to brush the issue aside by saying the comments were not about harming Rinpoche. Yet for 5 DAYS, this person had continued to strongly support, talk about and encourage harm to Rinpoche because of his Shugden belief.
2) In those 5 days, many other comments were also written to support the messages about Rinpoche’s death. These comments made fun of Rinpoche, taunted and jeered Rinpoche, and talked about his practice of Shugden and why he will face consequences for it. Many implied by their silence that the threat was well deserved.
All of these messages were a clear violation of Facebook’s rules regarding violence and harassment. Yet instead of removing the comments about Rinpoche’s death, the group’s administrators let the comments remain there until today (April 13). This means for over one week, the administrators let people see the death threats to Rinpoche’s life and let people continue to comment on it and joke about it.
3) Today I read Joanne Clark’s statement about what’s been happening. Joanne is a moderator on the FB hate group and it is her decision amongst others whether to allow the dangerous discussions on Rinpoche’s death continue or not. Clearly she allowed it and in her statement, made certain claims designed to almost explain why the group’s behavior was acceptable. Joanne claims that no one commented on the group’s discussions and Shugden practitioners are uncomfortable about debating. How is any Shugden practitioner allowed to debate when their group is closed? On their group, no one who supports Shugden is allowed to join or comment. Anyone who even hints at supporting Shugden is immediately kicked out. So what discussion or debate is she referring to? And since when was a person’s murder an acceptable topic of discussion?
4) Joanne also claims the group’s administrators have removed the comments about Rinpoche’s death. Yet upon checking the thread today (April 13 – https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152927751843124&set=gm.692461284198687&type=1), the comments are still there. I wonder who Joanne is trying to fool by lying about deleting the comments, when she has not actually deleted them.
5) Joanne also says the person who made the comments has apologized. No, they have not. They wrote a stupid half-apology on their blog which they removed a few hours later, and replaced it with a message blaming Kecharians for defending Rinpoche against her threats.
6) The most disturbing part is that this conversation was started by Siling Tongkhor who even said that the conversation should be allowed to continue because he enjoys reading messages about the death of Shugden practitioners. He is a MONK. He should not get involved in these types of talks. Instead he even contributed to the conversation in a way that would incense the audience even more. Sick, poor and faithful practitioners donate to the monasteries to produce kind monks and teachers. They don’t donate to the monasteries so that monks like him can go online all day long to create trouble and implicate the monastery in his wrongdoings
7) Joanne also keeps emphasizing ‘Asians’ over and over again which frankly is quite racist. There was no mention of ‘Asians’ in the woman’s comments and it is Joanne who now creates this impression. Why does she keep focusing on race? First of all, the death threat came from a Westerner; second, it is well-known that Shugden practitioners face violence from a very specific set of people – anti-Shugden individuals – and this has NOTHING to do with race. The Dalai Lama is Asian, Siling Tongkhor is Asian; Robert Thurman is American – what does their race have anything to do with their behavior or beliefs?
8) Joanne said that FB is a ‘difficult world to moderate’ and that hints at the main purpose of Joanne’s group. Millions of people around the world do not find FB difficult to manage. However, when an FB group is set up for the special purpose of encouraging violence, it becomes difficult to moderate because they still have to remain within the law.
9) Joanne ends her message by requesting Kechara House to stop threatening them. I have never seen Kecharians write anything sarcastic, mean or vulgar to anti-Shugden individuals and if they wish to claim that Kecharians have behaved in this way, they should find proof and show it. The only threat has come from these anti-Shugden people who for eight days have repeatedly insisted that Tsem Rinpoche will die for his Shugden beliefs. And when caught, they then blamed Tsem Rinpoche for blowing things out of proportion. It is very strange that they will blame the victim for suffering, yet they do not take the responsibility of controlling their own speech.
If anyone is responsible for this whole incident, it is the people who have stated clearly on a public forum that Rinpoche will be killed for his Shugden practice, and it is the people who have allowed these comments to remain and what’s more LIED about removing them. And when others in the forum disagreed with the dangerous direction of the discussion, they were shouted down.
This is one of the worst and insincere apologies I have read and I am sure it has just upset a lot more people because it’s just so badly-written and insensitive. It feels like it is saying that they are not responsible for any death threats but if there were any trouble then Rinpoche as a Shugden monk deserves it. In a sincere apology, you take responsibility for your actions. You do not say ‘sorry’ then go on to blame the victim what they have suffered and insult the victim’s friends for whatever actions they have taken to defend themselves. When death threats are issued against someone, and people are allowed to respond to it again and again for over one week, anyone is well within their rights to engage any lawful means to stop such behavior.
If this group of people is really sincere about apologizing, they need to stop making excuses for their behavior and start issuing real apologies like adults. If they are serious, stop talking about Kechara, Tsem Rinpoche or any other Shugden practitioners on their group. There is no debate or discussion because their group is closed and no one is allowed to join.
Just wondering why anyone would agree to be a moderator for a site that create hate and violents. Then make apologise for them. Stupid people everywhere. ROFL
Curios, I agree with you. But the moderator and starter of the page is Carol McQuire. She is a ex member of NKT who left disgruntled from NKT because she couldn’t get any respect as a teacher or promoted due to her lack of knowledge in dharma. She failed the teachers program or something like was not even allowed to participate. She being disgruntled sought revenge on NKT. Central Tibetan Administration or NKT picked up on this and contacted her with a salary to work on a smear campaign. This arrangements suits them both well.
CTA are embarrassed by the outspoken protests against Dalai Lama regarding a unjust religious ban against Dorje Shugden. They think it is orchestrated by Geshe Kelsang the head of NKT-true or false-who cares. So CTA are on a smear campaign against this saintly old monk Geshe Kelsang for his religious belief in Shugden. Carol McQuire angry at Geshe Kelsang for not giving her power in NKT, left. So Carol started this hate group with other people who left NKT to join forces with CTA to smear the old Geshe Kelsang who has done nothing wrong. He merely spoke up for his religious freedom. Any organization as the years roll on will have people leave and some are disgruntled. It’s normal. Carol is being paid by CTA for this smear and hate campaign. She is the moderator and very active on We Need To Talk About Shugden and encourages hatred and anger. Why would anyone do this day in and day out? Because they are being paid.
Now they know they have gone too far and legal suits are looming in the air and they make a pathetic apology that I would not accept if it was me. They should make a full apology without mincing words and justifications and then never speak about Tsem, Kechara and the whole thing again in any of their conversations. Promise that in their apology and sign it or be ready if they push it too far. Is this all worth it for them to get into lengthy international lawsuits and do they have the means to pursue? This is the right way to go which is to apologize genuinely quickly.
Whether their issue is right or wrong is BESIDES THE POINT NOW: YOU DON’T USE MURDER OR INSINUATE MURDER AND KEEP IT ON YOUR PAGE FOR DAYS AGAINST ANOTHER PERSON! You don’t murder people for their religious beliefs and they are complicit to this.
Some things puzzled me further, Siling Tongkhor, a monk from Sera Mey Monastery, joined in the group and instead of creating harmony, Siling Tongkhor further added to the negative speeches, on and on, and the moderator allowed him.
Firstly, Siling Tongkhor as a monk from a renowned Sera Monastery, should know better than a normal Buddhist what is right conduct and what is not. Secondly, the moderators themselves are “Buddhists”, so they should stop Siling Tongkhor from negative speech, but then again, the whole group was set up to create schism and malicious speech and slander, so I am not surprised.
I have lodged email complaints to Sera Mey Monastery about Siling Tongkhor, I am not trying to get him into trouble, but just sincerely would like the monastery to ask him to observe some Buddhist precepts. However I heard from my friends who are following the situation, that Siling Tongkhor did not back down and write further bitchy and nasty remarks, so again I lodged a second round of email complaints to all departments of Sera Mey, and this time I also include Sera Jey Monastery.
I am not a trouble maker, I am just sincerely hoping a monk like Siling Tongkhor would behave like a monk, so that people will still respect monks, respect Sera Monastery, respect Dharma, respect Buddhism.
T. Namgyal
Siling give Sera monastry a bad name. Any school, uni or normal company even those ones that doesn’t know Buddha’s dharma will come out and say sorry if their member create problem outside. Still Sera monastry allow. It means no more rules for monks to follow and even can break Buddha vows. What for give sponsor to monastry. Better go shopping if got money. If give monk like Siling more sponsor he got time to create more trouble.
Just now I go to we talk about Shugden Facebook but got nothing but complain and complain and say all bad things. Never teach anything good or benefit. I read also become depress. Terrible
Dear Curious,
I agree with you siling gives monasteries a bad name and also a bad name to the sangha. Maybe Sera monastery admin people are looking into the email complaints re the inappropriate behavior of this so called monk. Maybe wait a little while for their reply. But one black sheep does not represent all the sangha where there are many genuine monks who are really learning and practicing, some teaching. But it may not be good for the monks’ welfare if sponsorship to them stopped. Of course you have every right what you wish to do with your hard earned money.
Wow, i just heard from India that Siling Tongkhor used to create many trouble with his previous teacher. He is known as a political monk. True or not, it makes a lot of sense about his behaviour online cause it does not reflect how a monk is suppose to behave. This is the first time, I have seen a monk condone act of murder by allowing Patricia to make such comment and even encourages her. He is very daring and if he knows the legality behind, he should be worried. If he thinks he is famous, he sure is for all the WRONG reasons.
This reminds me of the story of Devadatta. He was a monk and a relative of the Buddha. In the early years he was a good monk. Later he became conceited with worldly gain and fame. As his ill will and jealousy towards the Buddha increased, he became the greatest enemy of the Buddha. Devadatta approached the Buddha and asked him to make him the leader of the sangha. Buddha turned down his request. Devadatta became very angry and vowed to take revenge. Devadatta plotted many times to kill the Buddha, but of course he failed to do so.
Towards the end of his life Devadatta suffered a great deal. He regretted and repent. Just before he died he too refuge sincerely with the Buddha.
I hope those who had all these evil thoughts and intentions will learn from Devadatta’s experience and quickly stop their wrongdoings and work towards repairing their samaya. Focus on the Buddha’s teachings and use it to benefit others, not destroy them.
Attention Kechara:
I use to be on the ‘We Need To Talk About Shugden’ FB page started by Carol McQuire. I left the page because if you debate or say anything contradictory to their hate campaign, they ‘reprimand’ you. If you continue, you are out. I was truly against Shugden not so much NKT and hadn’t heard about Kechara. Because of them I started reading about Kechara and Tsem Rinpoche and that is how I landed here. I am still not sure about Shugden but surely no one deserves to die because they engage in Shugden. One thing for sure, because of Carol and group, Tsem Rinpoche’s writings has turned the minds of quite a few people with his sound logic and erudite dharma made for the layman including me.
~For sure Carol McQuire is in contact with CTA which is the group of people in Dharamshala who rule the roost over the Tibetan exiles. She is paid by them to create smear campaigns which she is not very successful in due to her lack of many skills. CTA does not like any condemnation against the Shugden ban. Carol has produced not one shred of evidence Shugden harmed her or anyone.
~Carol’s purpose for opening WNTTAS page is to blacken the name of NKT so the work of NKT to bring Shugden’s ban down is destabilized. She is on CTA’s payroll specifically for this. How else does she survive and travel all over England and be vigil on her WNTTAS page 24 hours a day and 7 days a week. She admitted she is not independently wealthy. It serves her purpose because she has a psychological history of distorted delusions of being hurt or victimized. The truth is, she can’t find any much needed attention or feeling of importance so this is the next best thing. She needs to blame someone and so NKT is the best. If her claims against NKT were genuine, any victim would have gone to the law. her rampages against NKT is a waste of time. She will look back at her life of hate in a few years and finally realize she wasted her time smearing NKT. She’s not a spring chicken, so she’s better get something useful to do before the full onslaught of old age hits her soon. CTA uses Carol and Carol uses CTA funds to sponsor her tirade against NKT. CTA accomplishes they think a smear campaign against Geshe Kelsang to stop their movement against the ban. Carol gets her revenge against NKT funded by CTA. What a marriage of doom.
~Since Tsem Rinpoche and Kechara has bravely revealed they worship Shugden, this worries Dharamshala. Dharamshala is well known for violence and hatred towards their own people. Dharamshala contracts disgruntled people who are Western Buddhists and Tibetans to attack people they perceive can reveal their unjust ban against Shugden. They use twitter with anonymous names, anonymous FB accounts and pages like ‘We Need To Talk About Shugden’ to achieve this negative PR objective. It is not working because Carol Mcquire’s page cannot gain respect or importance because although they like to claim they are open, democratic and fair, their page is closed to all those who do want to debate their position. They do not allow any opposition in their views. This is not fair. So their page is not open and not fair at all. This is a strong indication of their intent which is strictly to distort views and create smear campaigns. It never has been fair. Carol is a paid CTA Western Buddhist whose intent is primarily to smear NKT and now somewhat Kechara if it suits her purposes. Her target was never Kechara, but she will allow it as I said, it suits her dark purposes. It will backfire.
~We Need to Talk About Shugden has recruited Ex-Tsem Rinpoche students who are angry and disgruntled for one or another claim they have of being some kind of ‘survivor’. Almost comical. There are always two sides of the coin. It would be interesting to see Kechara one day speak up in one voice about these ‘humans’ who have left. Let these ex students keep pushing the button. Nothing is static and still. Kechara has had a few of them who have left as any large organization would have. So what! Among the few are Jamie Khoo and another is Wong Kok Chung or otherwise known as Joey or Joe. These two are ‘colorful’ characters who come from families that have some money and they don’t have to work. They stay home all day, eat, binge and just hang around the internet-scape.
Joey’s father apparently supports this young homosexual man in anything he does and he does not need to work and had a stint in Kechara and failed miserably as he was caught many times on gay porno sites while pretending to do Dharma writing and taking lewd shots of himself while sending them to various men he meets through Kechara online portals in hopes of well you can guess. These men have sent the pictures back with names. Would be interesting if this was taken to the law. Kechara is a spiritual institution and the acts Joey committed are not spiritual. In fact, this Joey reminds me of the men in cloth in the catholic church molesting children. They are suppose to be saving souls, but instead they are sending them to a lifetime of personal hell. He still is not working and at home. Even if he is working, what can he do? If you look at his pictures and interests, you can tell he does not do much and not very educated. Just a blue collar worker if he did work. There are so many of these strange characters that band together in WNTTAS that ordinarily wouldn’t touch eachother with a ten foot pole. But they ‘need’ each other now for the smear works.
Jamie is very ‘close’ to a overweight Chinese man from New Zealand who lives somewhere in Tokyo because they met ONCE. This man never reveals himself or says much and claims to know Tsem Rinpoche inside out from his one and only meeting when he visited Kechara a few years back. I guess he is a psychic psychologist of some sort! He knows everything about you from one meeting. It justifies his so called ‘authority’ online when typing negatives against Tsem Rinpoche. After all he met him once and he knows everything! Genius of a man isn’t he? He likes to shout all types of derogatory remarks, but it doesn’t get far because look at himself and his shroud of secrecy. No one on the WNTTAS group ever talks about his cross dressing nor interested. But he shoves his lifestyle down everyone’s throats. He is always on We Need to Talk About Shugden spilling information fed to him from Jamie Khoo. Their last conversation centred around some health food or exercise they both need severely. Last year it was painful to see the hundreds of selfies Khoo posted up about her stint at the gym. It was a miserably failure. She only shows headshots at certain angles to hide her body. Like her stint at Kechara, her gym routine failed horrendously. If she spent more time on her gym, getting anger management counseling and weight issues as much as trolling on the internet, she can hope to find a life eventually. I am not sure, but I think she lives somewhere in England funded by her parents. She doesn’t need to work and cannot work due to anger issues and huge self esteem problems that makes her cave into depression for weeks or shout and slap people. Being nasty online isn’t going to help your obesity and the issues behind it. I couldn’t be bothered to re-check what foods she and the New Zealander cross dressing fellow who call himself ‘souldiva’ was talking about. Khoo doesn’t need to work and she cannot work. She has worked in various jobs and failed miserably as she has anger, self esteem and weight issues as I mentioned so she has to blame that on everyone else and in this case Kechara. Easier to blame her weight and anger issues on someone else and keep on binging. Get help and shut up already. There are millions of fat girls out there getting lonelier by the minute because the don’t face the truth. Blaming seems to be the way for people who don’t have to work for a living to justify why they do nothing useful and sit in front of the fridge and binge. Some members of WNTTAS have complained sarcastically all she blogs or talks about online is her weight issues and accepting herself and all that baloney. I;ve spoken online to them about it. She has nothing else to say as she does nothing with her life. She looks around 40 and very obese. I think she is 40 years old or so. She looks it. She is close to some members of WNTTAS because she gives them ‘insider’ news about Kechara. She hides and strokes her fat pains by getting revenge on a made up enemy to cover her lack of self esteem.
Jamie and Wong Kok Chung does this covertly because they don’t want lawsuits up their gazoo. What they are doing is defamation 100%. But unfortunately the more they do what they do, the sloppier they get. Jamie has worked hard and long on some ridiculous website against Tsem Rinpoche, Kechara members and Kechara while stuffing her mouth with potato chips. She never reveals her name because she has zilch courage to do so. She knows her information is wrong, twisted and not the truth but her fat goal in life is to smear. How was she raised? Otherwise why doesn’t she sign her name to what she writes? Because it’s lies. Sign her name and come out and be clean if you dare. Simple to see through. Months back she encouraged Carol McQuire and the lynch mob on WNTTAS to read that most boring site against Tsem Rinpoche. They read it and couldn’t make heads or tails. Since it has no name and no one signs their name to it, it has no credence. But it was whispered within We Need To Talk About Shugden it was written by Jamie Khoo and it has to be hush-hush. Get a life!! Well, let’s blow the whistle now!
What really gets my goat is how they can allow talk of murder against someone due to their differences in faith. This is a crime. This was the final straw that pushed me to write this. As they write more I will write more. I am not really into Shugden, but Tsem Rinpoche has his rights and we cannot condone murder in any way, shape or form. I do not want to be a part of this or be implicated if this leads to investigations. You can ask individually what each of the WNTTAS people have accomplished? Nothing. They have done nothing, but they can go onto the blogs of other teachers, lamas and people to just criticize. They have done nothing and hide under the veneer of supporting the Dalai Lama but it’s to cover their failures in life, but they can criticize others who work day and night. They can care less about the Dalai Lama!
Amazingly they have nothing on Geshe Kelsang or Tsem Rinpoche so now they threaten and are complicit with murder intentions. Tsem Rinpoche will not live to see the end of this year they said. What a wonderful Buddhist and compassionate group of people they are. They can delete from their thread and churn out half hearted false apologies. But real apologies are not long winded and full of justifications. But I am sure many have saved the picture of their death threats against a spiritual teacher Tsem Rinpoche. They even taunted and laughed about the threat. Siling Tongkor Tulku is amazing. Who would ever study or respect a Buddhist monk like him? He is full of hatred. Carol uses him to justify her cause as if she has the inside scoop on the Tibetan version of things. Actually who would ever respect a Buddhist monk like this guy who invites and acknowledges death threats and encourages so much hatred. This is not a monk but a schiester in robes paid by CTA.
Tsem Rinpoche and Kechara never hurt or damaged any member of WNTTAS. If they did, file a police report or shut up. But each of them have their personal gripes to ‘justify’ their revenge. Carol paid by CTA. Cross dressing New Zealander dealt with many years of alienation due to his lack lustre looks and sexual orientation. Khoo angry at the world with her weight and boyish looks. If you didn’t know better, you thinks she was a man cross dressing because she sure looks like one. Wong Kok Chung, embarrassed with his homosexual pornographic endeavours caught red-handed. The list goes on.
Sad group of people whose misdeeds and attacks is all they do with their precious human bodies and the short time they have on this earth. Too bad.
The Chinese New Zealander cross dresser living in Tokyo claims to know Tsem Rinpoche well. He goes onto ‘We Need To Talk About Shugden’ FB page to give this ‘authoritative information ‘wowing’ the other hate mongers when he only met Tsem Rinpoche once. He knows nothing on Tsem. How could you know anyone as well as you claim when you met them onc?! Well the cross dresser or ‘souldiva’ gets his ‘information’ from spiteful ex-students like Jamie Khoo and Wong Kok Chung aka Joey or Joe. Obviously what Khoo and this Mr. Chung have to say will be defamation pure and simple which will cost millions in lawsuits that drag on for years if fully exposed. So they use the insecure cross dresser to speak their minds. The cross dresser ‘souldiva’ would never speak out of make up and without a frock because he has no confidence and wouldn’t reveal who he really is. Like a sad clown with bad make up and tight frocks that hugs his fat male body, he churns out his vile rhetoric against a person he as met once. What do you get out of this? Do you enjoy being vicious because you were taunted as a child for being homo?
I was told, yes I am in contact with Kecharians, that Tsem Rinpoche showed ‘souldiva’ love, compassion and gifts. Advised him to do dharma and spoke the kindly to him. Tsem met him once and he visited Kechara once, so what possible harm was done to him for him to have such a vendetta? He claims it’s the Shugden issue. It’s none of your bleeding business bloke in a frock! When you were growing up in New Zealand did you like people making fun of your homosexuality and effeminate ways? Did you enjoy not being accepted and the taunts? Do you like homos throughout the world taunted and disliked and mocked? Do you like that? They are who they are and people have to accept them. I’ll have you know the majority of countries and people on this planet DO NOT ACCEPT HOMOSEXUALITY OR CROSS DRESSERS. You would be stoned in some countries and it is illegal to engage in homosexual acts in others. Does that mean being a homo is wrong? You decide. Most of Christendom, Jews, Muslims, Hindus and some Buddhists are against homosexuality. Do you like people not accepting your way of life? Your choices and preferences? There are more people who would hate your homosexuality than Shugden. So what? Does that mean you become straight? Does that mean people give up Shugden? You better consider it wisely. Tsem Rinpoche did nothing to you but only showed you kindness. If he wishes to practice Shugden, you just shut up because you have no right to preach right or wrong. Fight for a bigger cause like gay equality or something useful. Do you like being looked down upon by most of the world for being a homo? Well you are looked down upon and that is a fact. So don’t be prejudiced against Shugden people even if you think they are a minority praying to something evil because you are a minority too and your sexual orientation is considered evil by the majority. Wake up. Stop your garbage.
Get a life. You want to be a homo? That is fine with me, but don’t judge other people who choose something not mainstream like you. What’s the difference between homos and cross dressers and Shugden people? They are hated by some. Wake up. You should identify more with Shugden as a homo than with straights and non-Shugden people. They all stand for the right to do and engage in what they feel are their rights and no need to be taunted and hated.
Most religious leaders and religion condemn homosexuality and that is a much bigger issue than Shugden. Fight for the right causes.
Jamie is pathetic and she is using you to get her revenge. She is a ‘survivor’. I think there should be many out there who had to survive her anger and bad temper and hatred for years too. Read her book and how she gushes about Tsem and then it turns around. Look at her writings, nothing but hatred and weight issues. What she writes is all she has in her head. Just a stupid spoiled bimbo whose claim to fame is she speaks English. Big deal! She is probably 40 or she looks it and from the grapevine STILL LIVING AT HOME. What adult at 40 lives at home in any civilized country? That is a certified loser or a leach of some sort.
Whatever Jamie and Mr. Chung/Joey are saying, writing or doing can blow up into huge legalities that nobody wins. Let them keep at it. It will cost millions. I am sure if they keep pushing the button it will blow. You have hundreds in Kechara vs Khoo/Chung. What do you think? If it does blow up, many of their ‘friends’ will be implicated and dragged into as witnesses or worse. Would their friends enjoy law suit after law suits for years? Who needs that? That is a lot of money, time and energy spent for something that is it really worth it?
‘We Need To Talk About Shugden’ has nothing on Tsem except he practices Shugden. So what. It’s none of their bloody business mate! They claim he has some anti Dalai Lama websites. Well that information is of course if true at all, volunteered by Khoo and her ‘boyfriend’ Mr Chung or Joey. Who else. Even if is true, let the Dalai Lama group deal with that. You have no stakes in it and you are not being paid by CTA like Carol McQuire or are you?
Get a life and stop picking on the ‘minorities’. Khoo and Chung, get a life and move on. You are not helping yourself and nothing stays the same. You will be alone one day and not under the protection of your aging parents and all karma will come back. What comes around goes around. Look at yourselves now. How sad you are and you wonder whose fault it is? Your own fault. Carol McQuire, is this the sum of your life? Attacking NKT? Go get counseling, find a bloke, settle down and go watch the sunsets!
You will never win against them because if you could, you would have already.
Dear ex WNTTAS, I am completely horrified. I have wondered why the people at that FB group suddenly came out to attack Tsem over a picture which he already explained not that he needed to. It’s no one’s biz. Someone at Kechara should do something. There are laws for things like this and you should testify formally.
Another active member of We Need To Talk About Shugden’s hate page Siling Tongkor Tulku clearly says here he is in contact with Ex-Kecharians. This does not bode well for those Ex-Kecharians because it shows they are instigating trouble quietly without putting their names to it. Why hide and make trouble if what you are saying is true?
Siling Tongkor Tulku who is a known trouble maker in the Sera Mey monastery clearly states he is in contact with Ex-Kecharian members. ‘Souldiva’ is in contact with Joey/Joe and Jamie Khoo. So any information that We Need To Talk About Shugden group has regarding Kechara both false and otherwise comes from these Ex-Kecharians.
Kechara President and members,
I am giving you a heads up on this. Beware and see what is your legal recourse. I am sure they will make more mistakes. I have other items which I will post later. I refuse to be on We Need To Talk About Shugden anymore after I found out Carol McQuire’s real sinister agenda and her being paid by Central Tibetan Administration (CTA). CTA has recently accused each other of murder and corruption: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/corruption-and-alleged-murder-in-tibetan-parliament/ So Carol is a supporter of this corruption and alleged murder intrigues by taking salary from them.
I am not a close student of Tsem Rinpoche as in physically but I do follow Rinpoche’s online teachings regularly, and used to attend Rinpoche’s public teaching back then when it was more regular, and also went to Rinpoche’s private residence once or twice for private teaching.
Incidentally if the above-mantioned “souldiva” is who I think he is, then I was around and met him. Back then, I think around 2007/08, “Souldiva” came to Malaysia specifically to meet Tsem Rinpoche and get Dharma teachings, and Rinpoche graciously met him quite a few times, and even once in Rinpoche’s private residence where I also attended (I believe there is a group picture taken I will try to dig out). I believe we also went for some meals together with Rinpoche. Back then I thought we were very lucky because Rinpoche really seldom met new people. And on every meeting, Rinpoche only taught Dharma and encouraged Dharma practice for “Souldiva” and everyone else. Rinpoche spoke only about Dharma and nothing else.
Those time was also the formative years of Kechara Media and Publications and quite a few writers/IT people joined in the audience. Rinpoche gave a lot of encouragements and urged everyone to do work with Dharma attitude.
“Souldiva” just came Kechara for around 2 weeks and met Rinpoche less than 5 times, and only with many people together, so definitely he wouldn’t have known Rinpoche “very well” as he claimed. So I would not believe most of the things he said online as if he knows a lot.
I feel I have to write this, because it is very unfair for a pure monk like Tsem Rinpoche to suddenly get all these attacks from people who claimed to know him “very well”, no they did not. Like “Souldiva”, he was just here for 2 weeks, and all he received was Dharma from Rinpoche, so I don’t know what made him turn negative and said all the nasty things about someone whom he received nothing but Dharma from, therefore I feel I need to speak up for Rinpoche.
As for Jamie and Joey, the last I heard before they left, Jamie was a writer and Joey was doing some IT work for Kechara.
Whatever the reasons for them to leave, I would still very much like to advise them with this wonderful article by Martin Chow:
“Why Hide and Attack A Monk?”
https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/students-friends/why-hide-and-attack-a-monk.html
May everyone find peace.
Teh
Dear Teh,
You have a good memory! Thank you so much for sharing it! It is a VERY IMPORTANT piece of information that shed lights on who souldiva is and what actually happened and how well he or she knows Rinpoche.
It is very sad for someone who has only met Rinpoche for 5 times to make such negative and harsh conclusions on Rinpoche, and worst still make a false impression that he or she has known Rinpoche for a long time, in order to gain ‘credibility’ for all the untrue things being said about Rinpoche.
Martin’s article is an excellent read that reflects a lot on our deluded mind and we are all guilty of that in many ways while pursuing our dharma practise. Some choose to stay and some leave, and it is absolutely normal just like any other organisations in the world. Why then attack Rinpoche who is giving us advise on Dharma for our own good and improvements?
A real dharma practitioner realised our real enemy is our mind, not the Dharma or the person that we falsely perceived as enemy.
I wish very much to see the picture you have mentioned. As the saying goes, a picture speaks a thousand words.
Thank you and wish you all the best,
Pastor Adeline
Dear Teh,
That’s nice of you to remember. I met Yogini Souldiva too and he even stayed over in my place, in a spare room of Heruka House on one of his visits. I recall him to be smart and was very interested in the Dharma. I do recall Rinpoche encouraging him to do Dharma work at that time but he had other plans. Just too bad that he turns against Rinpoche and Kechara recently because of our Shugden practice. Now, I hear he speaks rather badly about Rinpoche and Kechara. We did nothing to harm him in any way. It’s just too bad that he feels this way about us.
(“Souldiva” seated in the middle in white jacket)
I managed to find a pic of “Souldiva” back then when he was in good terms with Kechara, he attended quite a few Dharma events and we parted well, so I don’t know what happened within the recent few years.
Teh
The many ‘faces’ of so called ‘Souldiva’ or his real name Jiunn Hsiao, a Chinese of New Zealand living in Shinjuku, Japan. But they are not nice faces. He is someone who hides behind his cross dressing persona to degrade, demean and spew vulgarities at monks, spiritual aspirants and dharma centres he has very little experience or next to no experience of. Very unpleasant person to say the least. Someone who is angry, bitter and lives on hurting others in the shadows. A homosexual that dresses up in women’s clothes and criticize others viciously hidden.
Kechara and their people has done ABSOLUTEY NOTHING TO THIS PERSON. Rinpoche has given him gifts, love, advice, care and encouraged him to practice dharma. Many witnesses attest to this. Many older members were shocked to see what happened to this young man from New Zealand who wanted to practice Dharma and Rinpoche showed him nothing but kindness. Suddenly he starts a tirade on line degrading Tsem Rinpoche, Kechara and their private practices. Just because they practice Dorje Shugden??!!
1. He has no right to judge what Kechara does or what anyone does. Nobody sends him emails, tags him or alerts him to Kechara’s activities. Stay away if you don’t like. He finds his way to this blog and Kechara sites and just goes on and on. Shameless.
2. Jiunn only comments under his cross dressing persona as it’s easier to hide his nasty comments. He keeps several fb accounts. One with him out of cross dressing where everything is nice, clean and sedate and he is ‘pleasant’. Then his ‘Souldiva’ fb is the one he hides behind to make nasty remarks and criticizes non-stop. Why must a person hide when they say all this?
3. This guy being homosexual and cross dressing would not be accepted in most parts of the world and would be taunted. Being a minority in regards to his sexual preference, he can turn around and taunt and degrade other people who practice Shugden???? Why the hypocrisy! Does he like it when people of his sexual orientation or he himself get taunted or degraded for the choice he makes which is nobody’s business? It’s nobody’s business what Kechara practices. If Kechara practices Dorje Shugden and even if it is a minority practice, Jiunn should keep quiet. Keep quiet!
4. Look at Jiunn’s picture. He puts on all that make up, photoshops himself to look like a woman and then uses this persona to go and criticize monks, teachers, spiritual practitioners who have given their lives and efforts to the dharma. He has not done a fraction of what others sacrifice for the dharma. What audacity. If your so good Jiunn, throw the frock away and go be a monk! Go do retreats. Or too busy with other activities we shouldn’t speak about with many people? In many parts of the world people would taunt him and in some countries laws against his preference. I don’t advocate these laws against cross dressing and his lifestyle, but my point is does he not know what it feels like to be hated and seen as evil? An abomination or be detested because of his choices? Hypocrite.
5. Keep talking and keep up the nasties. I am sure everything you print will be saved and kept for records. Anything happens to Tsem Rinpoche, you will be investigated with your online friends. Keep up your vulgar degradations, everything will be recorded and kept for further use. It creates a pattern and history. A profile.
That goes same for the WNTTAS group. All they spew are nasties as Carol McQuire and Siling are paid by Central Tibetan Admin (CTA) to damage the reputations of Shugden lamas and people. Siling Tongkor Tulku is well know for fighting openly with two of his teachers and arrogantly leaving these old monks to go create trouble. He is a long time paid informant of CTA which is spoken about in his home monastery of Sera Mey Monastery.
Jiunn or whatever you want to call yourself ‘Souldiva’ has no business prying into the life of others or in Kechara that has hundreds of people sincerely working for dharma and practicing they best they can. You hurt many people’s sentiments which turns to anger. You can also go online and be friends with ex Kecharians like Jamie Khoo and Wong Kok Chung (Joey), and extract information to twist around from them to print about Tsem Rinpoche? Well definitely they are using you and you them. Do you know what kind of people they are? Do you know what Joey did in Kechara that people had to ask him to leave. It’s disgusting you know. Kechara keeps quiet about all these people for now. When pushed comes to shove, let’s see what authorities to speak to. Why don’t you get a life instead of getting into other people’s lives?? Jamie and Joey are others who twist information around and anonymously spread virulent gossip because they like to damage and hurt as they are so unhappy with their lives. They will reap their results eventually. Why do they spread nasties anonymously? Because what they say is not the truth just like what you say. Why hide and spew vulgarities. Be human. Be kind.
Everything will be saved.
Photo-The various faces of Jiunn Hsiao or ‘Souldiva’.
Another photo I found where “Souldiva” (arrow) attended Tsem Rinpoche’s private teaching in Rinpoche’s private residence. The reason for putting up these photos is to show that “Souldiva” (we called him Jiun or Jiunn) was indeed very friendly with Kechara and even got invited to Rinpoche’s private residence for private teaching, which was very rare, and we parted well, there was nothing bad that Kechara did to him at all but only Dharma, therefore it really puzzles me why Jiun chooses to repay Kechara’s kindness by slandering Rinpoche and Kechara online now.
Omg! Yes, that’s Jiunn and I cannot imagine for the life of me why would this guy be so vitriolic towards rinpoche. He barely knows Rinpoche and he is not really a student of the Dalai Lama and even if he was, does being a student of the Dalai Lama automatically mean that you speak badly of Shugden practitioners especially those that were kind to you before?
This whole thing just doesn’t make sense and with people like Jiunn/Yogini, they are just prime examples of the negative effects of the ban and that the ban MUST come down. Jiunn is just one person, there are a few ex-students of Rinpoche who worked for Kechara and Rinpoche for many years. They received so much kindness, advice, gifts, care and much more from Rinpoche and Kechara over the years. Every single one of them but they will never tell you this.
I know these people intimately and have seen personally how much Rinpoche had helped them in the past and for one of them, Rinpoche had never even raised his voice at this person personally before… ever. Throughout the many years, Rinpoche had only shown kindness. But this person later claimed to have received psychological damages from what? I dunno. This along with people like Jiunn, they turn against Rinpoche and Kechara. Why do you bite the hand that fed you before? Why claim everything is bad when there was even more good that happened to you? I find that strange about these people. That’s just on the superficial level and I am not even talking on the karmic level.
This picture is also Yogini Souldiva.
I remember Jiunn as well because we share the same first name. He was very pleasant, fun and very interested to learn from Tsem Rinpoche. I think he also came to visit Kechara with his mother. He’s a Taiwanese living in New Zealand. Jiunn was very fortunate to attend a few dharma talks by Tsem Rinpoche. I remembered he was very happy to receive so much dharma knowledge from Rinpoche and said he would return for more.
I can’t think of why Jiunn is totally against Rinpoche now other than Rinpoche’s practice of Dorje Shugden. Rinpoche has shown nothing but kindness to Jiunn.
This is exactly what happens when the Central Tibetan Admin bans Dorje Shugden illegally. People like Jiunn gets influenced and verbally attacks others just because they practice Dorje Shugden. Discrimination, in general, is so wrong on so many levels.
We won’t stop talking about the injustice until the ban is lifted.
Dear Teh,
Thank you so much for taking the trouble to find these pictures of souldiva! He, as Pastor David and JP both recalled, is Jiunn and I have received a private message from him on 7 November 2014 introducing himself and expressing his admiration for all the works Kechara has done. He even liked my Facebook Fanpage and I still keep the message he sent me.
I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw what he had written in the ‘We Need to Talk About Shugden’ (WNTTAS) group on Facebook about the same time his message was sent to me. It confuses me a lot to say the least.
How can souldiva’s tone suddenly change from an admirable one to angersome, revengeful and jealous one? What could possibly happened? For someone who has only met Rinpoche for 5 times and was shown only kindness and care by Rinpoche throughout, receiving teachings from Rinpoche in His private residence etc., what can caused souldiva to be so unhappy after all the kindness and care he has received?
It made me wonder why people can be so ungrateful and so forgetful of the good things that Rinpoche has done for them. Nevermind whether you are a Buddhist or not, being grateful and remembering of others’ goodness are basis human emotions and manners, are they not?
Still in disbelieve,
Pastor Adeline
Read this
They want Dorje Shugden people to die
If you are different, then do you deserve to die?
If you are not the majority, gay, ‘wrong’ gender, poor, fat, worship Shugden, refugee, then should you be taunted and hated and die?
Majority of the world believe gays are bad and going to hell? Does that mean they are right. So this applies to the Shugden people. Just because others of ‘authority’ say Shugden is bad, it’s not necessarily true. Freedom to live your life and worship as you like without taunts and hatred is the birthright of everyone.
Ex-WNTTAS, NOW ALL THESE MAKE SENSE TO ME after reading your comment! OH MY BUDDHA!!!
Yes I think the chances for Carol McQuire to be in contact with the Central Tibetan Administration-CTA is extremely high! CTA hates Shugden and Shugden people the most and they always use His Holiness name to do bad things! And the monk from Sera Mey Monastery, Siling Tongkhor is getting money from the CTA also to attack Shugden people, in this case Tsem Tulku. And I heard from some Tibetan before this, that Siling Tongkhor not only get money from CTA to attack Shugden people, he also gets many benefits like getting Geshe degree without having examination in monastery. The funniest thing is that Siling Tongkhor always said Tsem Tulku not a real monk and know very little Dharma, but Siling Tongkhor never created a blog, youtube channel, Twitter to share Dharma stuff, to talk about Dharma and teach! I hardly see and when you go onto his Facebook or WNTTAS, he posted his Ice Bucket Challenge video, and errgh, his own half-naked swimming video. So is he a real monk then?? I doubt it very much!
For people like Jamie and Joey Wong? Yes, they might be in contact with CTA also, wanting to kill Tsem Rinpoche since they are in contact with people like Carol McQuire and Siling Tongkhor! They all have to be responsible if anything happen to Tsem Tulku. I wish they are not so stupid to do this kind of thing… the world is watching and WE ALL KNOW WHO ARE THE PEOPLE IN CENTRAL TIBETAN ADMINISTRATION…………….
Dear Kechara,
Here is a photo of Patricia Snodgrass.
Look at the angry bitter face. She is suppose to be an author, but a unsuccessful one obviously. She has a blog and not one visits. She had two fb pages, again no one visits. She is anger-some, hateful and uses her age and her sick husband ploy for sympathy to ask for money, financial help and free items from whatever groups she joins online. She lives in a little hick Texakarna town in Texas and would like to tell people she was from Oklahoma. Another lie. If you don’t give her money and free items, she will turn on you and then she moves to another. But she does not leave quietly, she will bite the hands that as kind to her. Tsem Rinpoche practices Shugden is none of her darn business! It’s nobody’s business, so it’s better to shut up!
You can see now, her ‘spirituality’ is just a racket and method to get money because she is lazy and sits at home all day in front of the computer spewing hatred for those who didn’t give her money. There are senior citizens in their 50’s,60’s and 70’s working in McDonald’s earning a living all over the US. She should lose weight and go get a job and get a life and stop attacking and issuing DEATH THREATS to people she has never met and claiming some sort of ‘survivor syndrome’. Pathetic. Being a writer, she knows everything what she wrote. She meant for Tsem Rinpoche to die and the whole ‘We Need to Talk About Shugden’ fb group by Carol McQuire and Siling Tongkor Tulku of Sera Mey Monastery agreed. Read their posts carefully. Carol and Siling, it’s time to shut up. What others do is none of your business. Shut up.
Patricia has gone into hiding because she is in big trouble now. She’s shut down her page and blog and withdrew from the We Need To Talk About Shugden hate group. She is smart to withdraw. But her troubles are not over yet, as all the evidence is compiled. She wanted Tsem Rinpoche dead and those on that thread are complicit with this.
I’ve followed Tsem Rinpoche’s teaching with my wife and it has helped our children very much. I don’t care what Tsem Rinpoche prays to because it’s nobody’s darn business. I decided to speak up because threatening death is unacceptable and I am angry. I hope Admin does not delete this. Everyone needs to see there are many of us who support Tsem Rinpoche. Dear Tsem, keep going, and don’t stop! We love you Tsem!
The end.
Thank you. I will print up her picture and put it on my alter to pray for her. 🙂
Eight Verses of Training the Mind
by Geshe Langri Thangpa
By thinking of all sentient beings
As more precious than a wish-fulfilling jewel
For accomplishing the highest aim,
I will always hold them dear.
Whenever I’m in the company of others,
I will regard myself as the lowest among all,
And from the depths of my heart
Cherish others as supreme.
In my every action, I will watch my mind,
And the moment destructive emotions arise,
I will confront them strongly and avert them,
Since they will hurt both me and others.
Whenever I see ill-natured beings,
Or those overwhelmed by heavy misdeeds or suffering,
I will cherish them as something rare,
As though I’d found a priceless treasure.
Whenever someone out of envy
Does me wrong by attacking or belittling me,
I will take defeat upon myself,
And give the victory to others.
Even when someone I have helped,
Or in whom I have placed great hopes
Mistreats me very unjustly,
I will view that person as a true spiritual teacher.
In brief, directly or indirectly,
I will offer help and happiness to all my mothers,
And secretly take upon myself
All their hurt and suffering.
I will learn to keep all these practices
Untainted by thoughts of the eight worldly concerns.
May I recognize all things as like illusions,
And, without attachment, gain freedom from bondage.
Dear Tommie,
I understand you might be incensed that someone is trying to harm Rinpoche but please do not let it get the better of you. I understand if you have been similarly abused for you religious belief but I am also sure you would agree its much more productive to focus on what the person did wrong and support the proper course of action than to focus on the person.
I have friends in small American towns and I do not regard them as ‘hicks’ so perhaps we should not resort to name calling and refrain also from commenting about people’s weight and their social and economic status. Tsem Rinpoche and Kechara do not support ANY form of discrimination.
Thank you.
Thank you and understood Martin. It just angers me so much people like Patricia can take and want more then turn around and be so nasty. Shugden is none of her business. Getting back to the office now.
I understand Tommie but our Protector and our holy Guru, Tsem Rinpoche never once taught us to hate or to harm but to remember that it’s her karma that drives her to this malevolence. Apart from the negative karma from their own actions I am sure all available and legal measures are being activated. All Kecharians are very upset.
Tommie,
Nice to see you defending here although your comments got a bit personal I think. Anyway, hope you continue to visit the London study group, and I will again send you and your mom some new Dharma books that were published last year.
CG
Dear Tommie,
Please refrain from the tone in which you are expressing yourself. As much as I see your intention is not bad, your tone of delivery and remarks are too harsh and fueled with anger. Anger is what becomes hate and I think you have seen enough of that. Therefore, please stop comments with such tone. If you continue to do so, as a Director on the Board I will ask Admin to stop you from participating on this blog.
Snodgrass,
Read this meme to understand why you are the only Buddhist in town.
Hey Snodgrass,
You took money and many gifts from Kechara. If you had any honor, pack it up and send it back undamaged. You can call them the ‘Thing’ worshippers degrading their faith, but you can still take money and freebies from them. WoMAN up and return it all. How dare you call Dorje Shugden a THING. This is none of your business!
You better stay away from talking about Kechara, Kecharians and their teacher from now as it’s NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS WHAT THEY DO OR WHAT THEY WORSHIP. Keep quiet and keep your your fingers off your keyboard about them and your mouth shut. No one hurt you. You just go on and on about all types of derogatory statements.
That goes for the rest of the WNTTAS group who have no business talking about others.
Keep quiet Snodgrass. You only bring trouble to wherever you ‘visit’ online. Keep quiet and do real spiritual practice and harm no one!
世界上什么样的人都有，这个忘恩负义的傢伙！！！不但没有感恩，还在网络攻擊對詹仁波切。真是没教养的傢伙。
詹仁波切也不止一次被人攻擊，他对身边人无私的付出给予爱与关怀，换回来这样的对待。大家好好的谢想在这个世上你们会遇到几个人没有任何条件无私为你付出，爱心，关怀与帮助。
为什么要这样对一位出家人，他错了吗？对人好是错的吗!!!!!!!？
对你好不是他人应该做得，在这个世上没有谁就应该为谁付出，有人对你好是因为他仁慈因为他慈悲。这个世界也没有所谓的东西是理所当然。当他人对你好就要感恩，要惜福。
@yenpin和你分享我在2015年4月11日看了仁波切这则痛心疾首的帖子后，在面书上发表了自己的感言：
“金刚上师的大悲心，你知多少？”
今天在晚间的多杰雄登课程的课堂上，有佛友问： “为甚麽么仁波切要花费这么多时间去回答这些的问题呢？” 我觉得我有这个必要为自己的上师说两句话！
第一， 这篇文章看似是为反击那些在网际网络口不遮拦，胡乱放话对仁波切造成人身攻击的人而作。
第二， 这篇文章好像是仁波切为了维护个人的名声或团体的声誉，才发出这样的帖文。
是！以上两点看起来都没有错，但是以我个人的了解仁波切不会为了这样小的事情而站出來说话，仁波切看到的肯定比这更重要；曾经不只一次，仁波切对我们说，他不会在意自己的名誉受损，也不会太看重克切拉的成长会受到影响。可是，真正让仁波切操心和担忧的是，整个传承的延续会否因这些负面的言语而带来不良影响。
因为这份忧心，仁波切才会花费时间和精神去回复这些不负责任的文字。佛法的延续，传承法脉的纯淨才是一位证悟金刚上师会担忧的环节，至于所谓的人身攻击，对他而言完全是搔不到养处。 挺身而出在大众说话，是为了让那些不负责任的人明白，修法的人在适当的时间，也会据理争取，不会盲目地哑忍，尤其当事情已经演变到危害对此传承法脉的地步。
佛友也说，就算今天我们据理力争让这个犯错的人知错了，可是总会有第二个人重复做同样的动作，哪我们干嘛要这样捍卫下去了？
佛友说得对，他出自一番好心！从佛教教育的角度，若深知因果恶业的严重性，却视而不见，任由不怀好意者随意挑拨，使许多有心人对该金刚上师的纯淨发心产生猜疑，丧失了对护法的持修的尊重，更糟糕的是因而离开佛法，走向歧途；我们这样哑忍不作声，息事宁人的消极态度，终有时日会造成佛法断层的悲哀后果。
所以，一位心怀慈悲心的真修行者，绝不会坐以待毙，据理争取回公道和真理，才是将慈悲心实践以行动的金刚弟子；而今天尊贵的詹杜固仁波切所做的一切，即是一名典型的证量大德的所为！
yenpin, 我想说的，今天大家这么关切此事件，皆因我们都希望法脉传承可以无止境地流传下去，造福我们的下一代。
3 Resaons on behalf of DS
The argument on the basis of Possibility and ability
1. The Buddha can manifest as AN being, in order to help ppl., propaget the dharma, etc. the haters clam that Buddha can not manifest es DS, limiting the Buddhas abilities, is contraie to all the Sutras (a limited benig is not enlighted, Buddha is enlighted thats way he is unlimted, thas way he can manifest as DS
The argument on the basis of accepting the lingage
2. All high lamas of Gelupa order, of the past 400 years, accepted DS as manifestation of Buddha Manjusri, whoever say someting contrariy is indrict claming to understand the dharma better then all this high lamas and that they are wrong !!, that is comlitly imossible thats way DS is a manifestation of Buddha Manjusri.
the argument on the basis of evidence
3. DS is (as far as i know) the only one TEST dharma protector-we can 100% be sure an enlighte being! Why? because in the beging of DS high lamas try the fire puja on him which by garantee kill evil Ghosts, and Spirits-the fact that DS, was not burnt to death, were even not slitsy harmd is an evidence that DS is Buddhas M. manifestation.
Dear Venerable Rinpoche,
this are terrible news, these haters are talking oppenly about killing you, like a Community engagement of Murder.
Are this ppl really Buddhist? way do they not practice the 5 Precepts?
Quote:
One must not deliberately kill any living creatures, either by committing the act oneself, instructing others to kill, or approving of or participating in act of killing. It is a respect to others’ lives.
One should not deprive others (animals not excluded) of the right to live. If one is hurt or killed, one’s family, relatives, friends will suffer. It is the cause of rebirth in Three Evil Paths. The effect of killing to the performer are brevity of life, ill health, handicapped and fear.
If the Buddha wants he CAN manifest as DS, but the haters are limiting the Buddha by claming he can not manifest as DS.
I believe Buddha can!
manifesting in different forms is an activity of enlightened beings. And there are no limits.
to compare
Quote: Lotus Sutra Capter 25
If they must be saved by someone in the body of (…)..will manifest as (…) in order to…
Hello Berndt,
Thank you for posting and I think that practitioners are easily swayed by their emotions and fixed views of things. People would rather see the fault of Rinpoche practicing Shugden and not see the rest of what Rinpoche teaches and the general message of the Dharma. This is just too bad. Whatever the case, as students of Rinpoche, we are concerned and would want to ensure Rinpoche is safe and sound. This is what this post is all about.
Dear Pastor David Lai,
I absolutely agree with you.
Thanks for replay.
Best Wishs
Berndt
Dear Venerable Rinpoche this are terrible news, these haters are talking oppenly about killing you, like a Community engagement of Murder.
Are this ppl really Buddhist? way do they not practice the 5 Precepts?
Quote:
One must not deliberately kill any living creatures, either by committing the act oneself, instructing others to kill, or approving of or participating in act of killing. It is a respect to others’ lives.
One should not deprive others (animals not excluded) of the right to live. If one is hurt or killed, one’s family, relatives, friends will suffer. It is the cause of rebirth in Three Evil Paths. The effect of killing to the performer are brevity of life, ill health, handicapped and fear.
If the Buddha wants he CAN manifest as DS, but the haters are limiting the Buddha by claming he can not manifest as DS.
I believe Buddha can!
manifesting in different forms is an activity of enlightened beings. And there are no limits.
to compare
Quote: Lotus Sutra Capter 25
If they must be saved by someone in the body of (…)..will manifest as (…) in order to…
Dearest Rinpoche,
i’m absolutely saddened & flabbergasted by the amount of hatred, threats and blasphemy that the haters are spreading about you.
Buddhist teachings are based on the precepts of refraining from killing and causing harm. Buddhist teaching is based on compassion and mutual care. Buddhist teaching offers respect to all, regardless of class, caste, race or creed. & now it is degenerated to the point when practitioners are lashing out against a Holy Being, just because they don’t practice our enlightened Protector DS.
It is in differences that we find similarities and we don’t differentiate. That’s when true liberation and peace within oneself will ensue.
Always remember the kindness of a Guru that has been bestowed unto you. Never forget that. When we see our Guru, he is an embodiment of the Buddha himself. & when u sever ties with your Guru, and run away. You’re just creating the causes never to fulfill meeting the holy nectar of Dharma in lifetimes to come.
& by even having a mere negative thought of taking a Guru’s life away, you yourself will generate immense bad karmic formations which will not be easily purified by just mantras alone. Further steps of reconciliation with Guru personally has to be fulfilled.
I will pray and dedicate that all non practitioners hatred will be transformed into all accepting, peace and loving kindness. & not to generate further negative harsh speech unto my most kind root Guru Tsem Tulku Rinpoche.
With Metta.
Om Benza Wiki Bitana Soha _/\_
We should always be responsible when making any comment on the internet. Our comment must not hurt and harm anyone or posted any threat to anyone, especially the comment that could encourage violences.
For the Dorje Shudgen lama and practitioners, please leave them alone and let them practice what they want and the lineage practices that have given to them by their teachers. They have all the rights to do what they want and what they think are beneficial to them.
Rinpoche is my Guru and I will follow the lineage practices given my guru without any doubt. I will continue to learn and transform to repay the kindness of my guru, the pastors, Kecharians who have given me a lot of blessing, opportunities and guidances.
I would like to thank Rinpoche for sharing the Dorje Shudgen practices with us and may Rinpoche long life and continue to turn the wheel of dharma.
Thank you with folded hands
Pee Bee Chong
I am deeply saddened by what I have read on here and on Facebook. How can these people maligned Rinpoches teachings just because He is practicing DS.
I have known and been following Rinpoches teachings since 2012. I have been doing DS saddhana daily and I have gained tremendous benefit by doing his practice. If doing DS practice can harm his practitioners then why is it that there are still millions of people in the world continue to benefit DS blessings?
If we have gained benefits on Tsem Rinpoche’s teachings and DS practice we should be grateful that we have met the Buddha Dharma in this lifetime.
In Christian community either you are Catholics,baptists,or seventh day adventist they never hate pastors, priests, or any preachers just because they don’t agree with some of the teachings.You will not hear them saying Oh you have to kill that pastor or that priest because his teachings are not the same with what we preach.
And it’s just sad to see Buddhist practitioners Who are well versed in practicing compassion, kindness and love are actually talking about killing.
If I know Kecharians, they’re probably talking to their lawyers right now. If this woman had so much exposure to all of you as she keeps claiming over and over again, she was stupid to post her comments thinking no one would notice. Your center grows because you’re in a place where the laws upheld and since Tsem Trul is also American, maybe he can even lodge a police report via the embassy wherever he is at the moment? Patricia should have shut up when she had the chance. Oh well too late now.
Death threat is grave matter that should NOT be taken lightly. Patricia Snodgrass should be reported to authorities because based on her post and her friends’, they seem to have the audacity to carry out their threat.
On the other hand, I am nauseated to learn that a Buddhist practitioner threaten to kill a high Lama and her fellow Buddhist practitioners condone it and enjoy reading the vile intention. If there is any spirit worshiping, then I imagine that the behavior of Patricia Snodgrass and her friends would be the hallmark of it. Seriously, what is the difference between them and terrorist? And which Lama teaches and allows his students to behave like a terrorist? How do we attract more people to Buddhism if there are people like Patricia Snodgrass and her friends doing these damages? How will people believe that Buddha and His teaching is great if Buddhist threaten to kill and behave like a terrorist?
We are glad that His Eminence Tsem Tulku Rinpoche is compassion and kind, and he instills only good values among his students. His teaching guides us to become a better person and do more for others. Isn’t it the same as what Buddha had taught?
I am so thankful that we have Rinpoche, a living Buddha, among us in this degenerated times, when human beings are ignorance and arrogance. Rinpoche’s teaching refreshes the mind. And even if we follow just a tiny percentage of his teachings, we can become a better person, a more useful person. I hope Rinpoche’s teaching spread to the ten directions so that more people benefit true Buddha’s teaching from pure lineage. The only way we can advert bad publicity and damage done to Buddhism is to be a good Buddhist ourselves.
Thank You very much, dear Rinpoche. I pray for your safety and health always. May all these pass quickly.
With folded palms, humbly,
Stella
Dear Stella
thank you for penning your thoughts here in support of our joint efforts to protect Rinpoche. I agree with you that HE Tsem Rinpoche is a very very very extreemely kind and compassionate Lama. From the moment Rinpoche wakes until the Rinpoche sleeps, Rinpoche is on the constant look out of people to help and benefit. Rinpoche spends very little time for his own self enjoyment and whenever Rinpoche does, it is intertwined with Dharma so that everyone around Rinpoche can benefit.
That being said, being compassion doesn’t mean we wait for the fire burning to be hurled onto ourselves. Rinpoche being very precious to all of us for our own individual unique reasons should be protected in the means befitting to the situation. Besides writing in defence to Rinpoche, we can also promote Rinpoche’s deeds in all social media platforms and in our daily life when we take Rinpoche’s teachings to heart and influence others to show the same kindness and compassion. This is very powerful against all bad talk and back lash created by those who have bad intention.
I can’t reiterate this enough that those whom have thrown death threats at my Lama have created big ripples in people’s minds over Rinpoche’s well-being. We have to protect Rinpoche and the minds of others who will potentially be benefited by Rinpoche by speaking up with KINDNESS and LOGIC.
Thank you again Stella and please write more.
PJJ
Agree with you, Pastor JJ. Rinpoche is very very precious to all of us who had benefited from him either through his teachings or otherwise as well as those who will benefit in the future. We must fence a wall between Rinpoche and the predators out there. The predators are ruthless enough to assassinate Rinpoche’s character and by doing so, smear the good name of Dharma, Buddha and Sangha. We must do our might to prevent this from perpetuating. I will do my best, Pastor JJ.
Dear Stella, happy to see your comments on the above. I agree very much that we must fence a wall to protect Rinpoche, and the best way to protect is to tell to the world, who Tsem Rinpoche is, how He has benefited us and why He is so precious and important.
Those ex-students who have left and attacking/harming Rinpoche are very selfish. Those who hate Shugden and want Tsem Rinpoche to get harm because of His Shugden practice are the same as well. When they trying to attack/harm Rinpoche, they are actually harming the Buddhism, as well as our opportunities to hear the Dharma. Some people might think this is exaggerating, but IT IS THE TRUTH that I only learn the Dharma because of Tsem Rinpoche and I AM SURE many people out there who have not meet Rinpoche yet will be the same, Tsem Rinpoche will be the one who will bring them onto the sacred path.
And thank you for speaking up, this is what we need the most at this point of time. 🙂
The reason we adopt a religion be it Buddhism or Christianity, is to find peace, inner and outer peace. Some misused their Dharma knowledge and engaged in divisive and malicious discussion and in this case, attacking a Buddhist monk Tsem Rinpoche whose sole purpose in life is to BENEFIT others, every practice Rinpoche does is to help and relieve others’ pain. Nothing else. Why would someone only offer kindness, love and care without condition and most importantly does not want anything in return, deserved such death threat?
Please show some conscience and humanity. Being ungrateful is ugly, sending death threat and initiate malicious discussion on public space with the intention of confusing and poisoning other bystander’s mind is the worst thing to do. Little did you know for that temporary excitement (malicious talks etc) it may lead u to permanent misery – lawsuit. And, what you give out to the world is what comes back to meet you, it’s called karma.
It’s really awful to see a Sangha like Siling Tongkor get himself involved in such negative talks. Whatever his intention may be, as a Buddhist monk, put aside your vows, what you’re doing to Tsem Rinpoche is putting yourself, your monastery and your robes to shame. What example you’re showing to the world? Do not degrade the meaning of wearing robes.
The post here is not to gain supporters to take side or pity us. It is rather to alert the world how Dorje Shugden practitioners are being treated since the ban imposed. There are many more terrifying physical attacks and death threats being sent to DS practitioners especially high lamas and monks around the world. This is intolerable yet it is really what’s happening. The ban must stop. Tsem Rinpoche and other Dorje Shugden practitioners do not deserve this kind of unkind treatment.
Religious freedom! Peace!
It’s so creepy that a group of people have come together with only 1 purpose- to villify and ‘crucify’ a holy being whom they haven’t even met and do not really know.
One of them has even threatened him with death. Sounds like a conspiracy of sorts to kill him.So audacious!
All because Tsem Rinpoche followed his guru’s instructions and has continued with the practice of Shugden that his Guru had given him. In Tibetan Buddhism, one of the basic tenets is Guru Devotion and following the instructions of one’s guru and the practices he has given you, unless you have received his permission to discontinue the practice. My guru, Tsem Rinpoche, has not committed any transgression in doing this. So why the death threat? Furthermore,he has the freedom to choose what he practices , just as we, his students, have the right to practice Shugden too.
thank you Pastor Han Nee for highlighting this fact that Rinpoche is practicing exactly as taught by HH Kyabje Zong Dorje Chang. We all have to remember that the sole purpose of a spiritual relationship is to gain spiritual attainments. If we were taught a certain way by our Gurus, but we do not follow, then what is the point of starting in the first place?
Respect of other faiths is just as necessary as respecting every living being with the fundamental rights to live on this planet. doing so otherwise defeats the purpose of spiritual practice in the first place.
putting another person’s life at risk with irresponsible speech is not spiritual at all no matter how many Gurus this person has. It definitely isn’t part of Buddha’s teachings
It can’t be tolerate anymore when it comes to threatening the life of others, not to mention to have intention to harm genuine Guru like Tsem Rinpoche who had always benefiting others.
The consequences both in law and karma will be very bad. These negative comments above from anti-Dorje Shugden people are very disgusting, it’s beyond rude. This is indeed really destructive, create so much suffering for all genuine Dorje Shugden practitioners and their organization as they have been discriminated. Just because it is banned, it doesn’t mean they have right to disparage, create disharmony, and promoting other people to do so especially in this age where spiritual freedom is loudly echoed.
I wish they stop their negative actions and for the ban to Dorje Shugden will be over soon. I wish Rinpoche to have a long life, free from any danger so Rinpoche can turning the Dharma for the benefit of countless beings _/\_
Compassion is not letting people attack us when they want to. Compassion is to stop them from doing harm
Wow! This is incredible. OKay, so what follows is going to annoy many people here, and it may even annoy Tsem Tulku Rinpoche, and I shouldn’t expect much of change that this will change their minds, but maybe one person might learn something. May it benefit someone.
Before coming to an early conclusion and assuming that there is a death threat and slandering Patricia Snodgrass further, please read the Facebook “conversation” or thread [in reference to picture of the huge Dorje Shugden statue behind Tsem Tulku Rinpoche] begun by the monk Siling Tongkhor on April 3 at 14:16 captured and posted on this website for your convenience, please read it carefully three times, and then decide if there is a death threat, without any doubt. If there is no doubt that there is a death threat then state your reasons and present evidence, and confront the person on Facebook [Patricia Snodgrass] who has been accused of the death threat and accuse them of such. I learned about this on Facebook when I came across this story posted by Christina HK-Lim with her thoughts starting with: “Is this what the CTA is encouraging their flocks to do?”
I posted after thoroughly reading the conversation and determining the intentions of Patricia Snodgrass. It looks like she has already attempted to defend herself here and she says that she has made efforts to apologize. And I believe in her, even though I do not know her. But keep in mind that I am personally against the Dalai Lama and CTA ban against Dorje Shugden worship, etc, and I love coming here and on YouTbe to get teachings through Tsem Tulku Rinpoche. I have practiced Dorje Shugden and find no harm in it. And I may go back to practicing it now that Tsem Tulku Rinpoche has sort of “come out of the closet” and is showing us more and more about this Wisdom Buddha Dorje Shugden and the practice. But I wish folks here would try to do more research, and be more honest and reasonable before accusing someone of threatening the life of Tsem Tulku Rinpoche. Don’t just go by what others says, go by the evidence. Otherwise, you may be wrongfully accusing someone. It is just as if a dark skinned, middle-eastern-looking woman were to be whispering on a passenger jet plane and seating in the row behind her is an American, or whomever you want to imagine, and for arguments is a man, and this man overheard parts of the woman’s conversation and managed to catch the words “terrorist”, “Islam,” and “bomb” in the whispered conversation, and then the man comes to the conclusion that the woman is a terrorist. And so the man goes on to claim to the other passengers that the plane is being hijacked by this woman, who is actually from Southern Spain, and people around the woman assumes she is Arab, a terrorist, and a hijacker, etc, all based on rumor, and other wrong assumptions. In the same way, you may be wrongfully accusing Patrica Snodgrass of being a “terrorist” towards Tsem Tulku Rinpoche. I get the impression that Tsem Tulku Rinpoche is accusing her of things wrongfully, if not him, then certainly people who administrate Kechara. If you cannot find any reasonable evidence, then please stop posting negatively here and on Facebook, creating a lie from the claim that there was a death threat and only harming and slandering others and making yourselves feel good and gain points from your fans for being victims of the “ban” and show how they insulted your pride and ego and your guru.
I had posted the following a few hours earlier today on Facebook as soon as I saw the share by Christina HK-Lim, which led me to this page.
Jairo Jamyang Pawo Posted on Facebook (under the share by Christina HK-Lim) about an hour ago :
STOP LYING Tsem Tulku Rinpoche THERE ARE NO DEATH THREATS!
With all due respects and high regards to the teachings of the Buddha dharma formulated by Je Tsongkapa and presented in the accessible and personable style of Tsem Tulku Rinpoche, I find the claims “They want to kill me” a bit paranoid, and politically and karmically incorrect. Karmically incorrect means that it is going to backfire on the authors/editors at Kechara, and may even errode respect in the efforts of Tsem Tulku Rinpoche . It also kinda shows how gossipy “Buddhists” can be online, Aren’t there some precepts found in the refuge and/or the Bodhisattva vows that refer to gossip? Oh yes, 4.To refrain from lying, harsh speech, idle speech, and slander [ouch — how about that gossip?] Especially when talking bad about somebody elses teacher. So the Facebook chat online doesn’t look good for the participants, although some of the conversation does wander around the gathering of information [or rather opinions and rumors] about whether to trust the claims made by Tsem Tulku Rinpoche such as his claims of being Mongolian, of royalty, etc. So we may all be guilty to various degress to that kind of intelligence gathering these days with ease of conversations generated online.
I enjoy Tsem Tulku Rinpoche videos on Buddha dharma of Je Tsongkhapa, and only recently have I noticed that it seems like he has sort of “come out of the closet” about his practice of Dorje Shugden, and has become more fearless and proud in making it plain to the world his position, while having some of his fans lose faith in him because there is that incomprehensible “ban” on such a practice placed by the Dalai Lama thus causing a certain stigma and “bad karma” towards those who practice Dorje Shugden or who even listen to a techer who practices Dorje Shugden. So it should not come as a big surprise to students or fans of Tsem Tulku Rinpoche that there may be some repercussions, and that there may be some gossip going around in Buddhist groups online, as made plain by that screen capture of the post on Facebook started by Siling Tongkhor on April 3 at 14:16. Perhaps someone at Kechara or even Tsem Tulku Rinpoche thought it would be a great opportunity to generate this scandalous news story to make the other “Buddhists” look bad, and to make the Dorje Shugdenites look persecuted. It at least attracts fans of Tsem Tulku Rinpoche. It made a great news story to post on Tsem Tulku Rinpoche website that “They want to kill me” and us folks on Facebook get that exciting story by way of someone sharing to their Facebook newsfeed. A meme has started, but let’s hope it doesn’t get too wild and hurt people.
Folks at Kechara need to be careful, I don’t think a court would find evidence of death threat, and it may backfire and turn out to be slander of the person supposedly making the death threat.
If you read the posts real carefully, you will get that these were not at all death threats. The reasoning being that one of the commentator in the thread Patricia Snodgrass at around 4:33 AM April 4th, 2015, says “If he keeps this up, his days in this incarnation will be numbered. In fact if he’s not careful, he may not see the end of the year.” But you must not take this out of context. She was talking about the Tibetan [and to a lesser extent the Mongolian] religious community whom she is assuming is all under samaya with the Dalai Lama and therefore such an imagined Tibetan community has made all who practice Dorje Shugden the enemies of Buddhism, or the “satanic” Buddhists or something of that sorts, and a threat to HH the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan cause. So Snodgrass is simply saying that he better be careful because they might harm him, not that she has any inside information on such an assumed intention. So the editors at TsemRinpoche.com are over-reacting, and making such a big deal about this, that publishing such thoughts are only meant to fuel the fire of hatred. Please, don’t post that you agree with Kechara’s line of thought and do not continue to mindlessly share this post until you first read the whole conversation (found at Tsem Tulku Rinpoche website) between Siling Tongkhor and others posting comments under the picture of the huge Dorje Shugden statue behind a Buddha Shakyamuni statue behind Tsem Tulku Rinpoche
So I copied much of the above from the post I placed on Facebook under a post by Christina HK-Lim posted and shared (at around 9:30 PM New York City Time Friday April 10, 2015) and that’s how I learned about this story. But I added a sort of an introduction trying to say that this is amazing how this has gone too far, especially here on this website. It also amazes me how even after Patricia Snodgrass apologizes, many people here are so hateful towards her, through comments that continue to slander her, even by people who know her even better than I know my co-workers.
I am afraid this is only going to backfire on Tsem Tulku Rinpoche, and if apologies are not given to Patricia Snodgrass then I will definitely lose respect and faith in Tsem Tulku Rinpoche and Kechara.
Thank you,
Om Mani Padme Hum,
Jairo Jamyang Pawo.
Dear Jairo Jamyang Pawo Moreno,
Thank you for your comment which clearly, you made considerable efforts in. As I read it, I thought to myself wouldn’t it be incredibly good if people such as you made similar efforts in defending those who have been wrongly accused, abused physically and emotionally, and discriminated against simply because of their practice of their chosen deity.
In any case, I cannot speak for the Administrators and BOD of Kechara and I write here as myself, a member of Kechara and a student of Tsem Rinpoche. Firstly I am very glad that Kechara is doing something to stop any harm, potentiality of harm and any encouragement of harm to my guru. Not to do so woud be to neglectful especially in light of almost 20 years of verbal and physical abuse against Dorje Shugden practitioners and lamas.
You have assumed many things, namely that Kechara reacted over a single incident of threat. There may be many that Tsem Rinpoche may have graciously chosen not to share, and there may be more serious ones that cannot be revealed lest it prejudices formal investigations and legal process that may be underway. In light of 18 years of death threats and actual physical violence to people on accont of their peaceful practice of their religion, what you regard as paranioia is in fact, Prudence in the eyes of those who have witnessed such threats.
You assume you know the mind of Patricia Snodgrass after reading one string of online conversation. I find it strange that you should conclude and attest so strongly to her character and mind. Do you actually know her and have had many interactions with her that you are not disclosing?
You see, what you omit to say here is that many Shugden lamas have had to flee their own monastery and country as the result of serious and ongoing death threats. Many of them continue to have protection out of genuine fear for their safety. It is also public news on Youtube that old monks and defenseless old ladies have had people broken into their homes and battered and assaulted them. Are they also paranoid? It is strange that you failed to mention these events.
Contrary to fuelling hatred as you claim in your comment, it is courageous posts like Tsem Rinpoche’s that actually STOPS the fuelling and fanning of hatred. The fuelling of hatred you mentioned can be seen in Siling Thongkhor’s post on We Need To Talk About Shugden. There, what was an innocent picture of the Protector, with captions to explain, was turned instead into an object of hatred and then more hateful speeches were openly encouraged. What was the intention? You yourself said that there are people who will take action wrongly thinking that its a show of loyalty. You yourself rcognised that there are real dangers lurking about for Shugden people. You should have intervened there and not here where Kechara’ action is intended clearly to stop the incitement of violence and more hatred. You are saying that when a mob gathers in the streets and some people make provocations to make them angrier, it is ok but when the police is sent in to quell the mob, it is regarded as adding to the trouble. To you, the police should just remain quiet.
All the effort you made to show how this has ‘gone too far’ is sadly misdirected. Instead you should compile and make available 18 years of abuses and threats and evidence and testimonies of victims and then proclaim that discrimination against Shugden followers have gone too far. Sadly you didn’t and hence many haters have been emboldened by similar fuelling of aggression.It is often quoted that for evil to prevail, all it takes is for good men to do nothing.
In light of such chaos, uncontrolled aggression and disinformation against Dorje Shugden people, Tsem Rinpoche’s ‘coming out of closet’ was an act of compassion and done in hope that people do not continue to disparage a Buddha. In addition, you need to raise the question why anyone should be driven into the closet to begin with because of their beliefs.
Finally, your reply to Christine HK-Lim’s FB post in which you were quick to shout STOP LYING, THERE IS NO DEATH THREATS betray your true intentions and no, for me at least, it doesn’t work.
Well said Martin.
Since this has been brought up for all to read and understand, it is excellent to have two opposing and different views. Information and views are good and we readers are here to learn and form our own opinions and decisions.
I have read what Jairo Jamyang has expressed and also what Martin has eloquently replied and debated. In Buddhism I know that a good debate is how monks ( I am not saying that either Jairo Jamyang nor Martin are monks) learn and progress. And from what I understand an erudite master is one who is superior in debate.
I appreciate what Martin has said and it does make a lot of sense and logic with no bias nor slander. Call me bias for what I am saying, perhaps I am. I am only clear that if someone were to make any statement which threatens the life of my mother I would not take it lightly as I hold my mother dear. And, I hold my Guru very dear.
In the context of Dorje Shugden, it is a fact that 20 years has passed with many hurt and some killed for their beliefs. So, I think that history has proven that such violence exist. And if you look at the whole context of conversation in the FB We Need To Talk About Shugden, it is about hate towards Dorje Shugden and its practitioners. So, paranoia? I do not think so. Over reacting? Most definitely not.
Dear Jairo Jamyang Pawo Moreno,
Thank you for your posting. Fyi, I’m a basic, normal but most importantly a “neutral” person.
You, presented to everyone in this blog here as an Intelligent, very very Professional, very precise and detail USA Central Intelligence Agency style’s Investigator, a Hero protecting innocent, a very Spiritual and humble Buddhist, Dorje Shugden Practitioner and also Tsem Rinpoche’s follower. I’m very sorry to said, NO, YOU ARE NOT!!
1. You openly accused and “disparage” a Lama, a Tulku, a Great Dharma Teacher – by inciting “STOP LYING Tsem Tulku Rinpoche” and you dare to talk about precepts and/or Buddhist vows! You are totally IGNORANT.
2. You are extremely BIAS. Your mind stream prefer to blame the “victim and not the rapist”. All your write-up are full of suspicious towards the Victim instead of Rapist, even your spy type of suspicious spilled to Kechara, the writer, Tsem Tulku and you even question their motives! You are full of shit and again you are full of DELUSIONs.
3. You are part of THEM. Reading you write-up more than 3 times give me an impression you are part of them!! Why and what lead me to that thought? Well, can you show me any point in your post allow me to change my view? I don’t think so.
Om Benza Wiki Bitana Soha. May all negativities be purify.
People who have your mentality are exactly why rape victims don’t go to the police. Because people like you blame the victim and not the rapist. It’s always the victim’s fault for blowing things out of proportion, for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, for wearing the wrong clothes, for seeing the wrong friends, for doing the wrong activities. Sound familiar?
Why not tell the rapist to control their body actions and control their speech? Why is it always the victim’s fault and up to the victim to protect themselves, and it’s never the rapist’s responsibility? If something happens to Tsem Trul then I hope you will regret uttering your words. You basically just said it is okay for people to say whatever they want and threaten whatever they want, and the victims just have to take it. Well done!
Dear Jairo,
It is very sad to see that Buddhism, known to be one of the most accepting and compassionate religion has to resolve to this kind of death threats.
I cannot afford to take this matter lightly, because we are talking about someone’s life. Moreover, it is the life of a High Lama because Hign Lama’s sole purpose is to bring happiness to others. In fact, not only Tsem Rinpoche, many other high lamas and Rinpoches are also receiving many death threats because of Dorje Shugden practice.
May be she thinks she is making passing remarks in WNTTAS, but she may not know what she is doing is inciting and hinting someone to take violent actions against Rinpoche. Take a look of this “hit list” published by CTA (http://tibet.net/dolgyal-shugden/) and both their actions invite and incite others to take violent actions against people who do not conform to what they believe. She may not agree with our practice, but there is really no keep planting the seed of hatred in others as this really bring no benefits or whatsoever and it is a lose-lose scenario.
What this article exposed is just the tip of the iceberg about the verbal abuse, baseless accusations, online slandering behind anonymity and death threats faced by the Dorje Shugden practitioners on a daily basis. Sadly to say, many of these people who claimed to be Buddhists (some even claim to be student of H.H. Dalai Lama) are engaging in these gossiping, divisive speech and hate speed.
With this article, I pray that people will stop incite hatred in others, and I pray they can find their own happiness because we all know, happiness is from within.
dear Jairo,
Why do you need a guru? It seems like you have it all figured out and know more than Tsem himself? Another rule of Buddhist is never question your guru. Never put him down. Never say you know more than him. Never question his judgment. Never cause disharmony against him. Never try to change his followers minds. Never try to take away followers by putting down you guru. The karma to try and cause others to go away from their guru is not something you want added to your karma from previous lives of wrongdoing (we all have this).
We get a guru because they know more than us. They use their knowledge to transform our minds. Sometimes they do this in ways we can not understand. Somtimes we try to fight them tooth and nail. If we don’t give in then we don’t progress forward. This goes for all guru’s not just Tsem. If you have another guru then that is who you should be following. For me i have no question about his concern of threats. If he says he feels threats then i believe him. If you are a follower then you should too without judgment of him. Remember these rules apply to all guru’s. This is not something special just for Tsem. The more you give in.. the more you transform your wrong thinking… the more you grow. 🙂
We can try to educate the other side, we can pray for them, but we must not question our guru or worry he will fail. Have full confidence in your teacher. Sleep well knowing he has this all figured out 🙂 . Pray for his long life and be greatful for all the good things he does for you.
Dear Jairo,
It is truly unfortunate… I have to disagree with your statement based solely on this one point:
You claim to believe in Patricia just by reading one or two messages posted by her. At the same time you also claim to like Rinpoche’s Dharma teachings, which I am assuming that means you have been visiting Rinpoche’s blog and Youtube for quite sometime… and yet it is incredible, how you can know one person just by reading her message, and yet not know a genuine Dharma practitioner like Rinpoche.
As for her ‘apology’, as far as I know, the president of Kechara have not received any apology from Patricia.
I can’t even get annoyed by this message, seriously… as I found it incredibly ridiculous. Anyway, everyone has the right to their own opinion, if they’re not insinuating harm of course. And if your opinion is that, then so be it.
I guess it’s truly difficult to be a Dharma teacher these days. It doesn’t matter how much Dharma you’ve disseminate to people or whether they have benefited from it or not, but each person thinks their opinions is larger that the benefit they receive from the teacher.
Good luck.
Dear Jairo,
I agree with what Sarah had said. It was a sharp observation from her part and something that I think you should think about deeper on what you have selectively perceived. This is not a simple matter of right or wrong, this is an allegation over Rinpoche’s life.
Death threat or not, why would Patricia make such a statement. Why would it even occur to Patricia to say it? And what are the implications if other people like other violent Tibetans acting on this statement and agreeing with it? She would have become complicit to acts of violence and possibly murder. You see, it is not so simple and should not be taken lightly.
Dear Jairo,
Thank you for your comments which you have made considerable efforts to share. I agree with what Martin, Sarah and the rest have said above. What Patricia Snodgrass wrote hinges on a much bigger issue of religious discrimination. Does she mean it or was she being overtly reckless? I don’t know but she made those statements in an anti-Dorje Shugden page and was engaging in a negative talk with the other members about how karma would fall upon Kechara and Rinpoche. I dare assume that as Buddhists, we may have made such statements like, “Don’t worry. There is karma.” However, when we go into specifics like someone’s life would be compromised by the end of the year, it can be construed as wishing for someone’s death and even be seen as a threat especially when the platform is one that promotes the termination of Shugden practice.
Since you read her postings on the said Facebook page, I reckon she didn’t hide the fact that she once followed Rinpoche’s teachings and in fact received gifts and kindness from Rinpoche and Kechara. But to turn to the other side and resorting to verbal abuse and threatening Rinpoche just because of one’s religious choice is like waking up one morning to find that your neighbour who is of a particular spiritual denomination is blamed to be devil-worshiping by the authority. All of a sudden, he is your enemy and the community works together to admonish and demolish this household. And this is not the first time religious persecution has happened in history and it won’t be the last either. During the era of the Inquisition and Witch hunt, innocent people were burnt at a stake even for things that they didn’t do.
Therefore, it is most wise that we watch our speech and not go overboard. Use logic and reason to enunciate our points so that we don’t have to keep explaining our “innocence” when we are exposed.
Dear Jairo Jamyang Pawo Moreno
How appalling you call Tsem Tulku Rinpoche a liar? How well do you know Tsem Rinpoche? It is incredible you utter those words in accusation. Are you a Buddhist? In your comment, you pointed fingers at others without reflecting you are in fact a reflection of what you wrote on others. Knowing who Tsem Tulku Rinpoche is, I would advise you to quickly do your purification practice on the 4 antidotes before karma comes knocking at your door. OM MANI PADI ME HUM……
Dear Jairo Jamyang Pawo Moreno,
For someone who claim to have following Rinpoche and even do Lama Tsongkhapa Retreat and update on Rinpoche blog of the retreat Mantra she did, and even receive the Lama Tsongkhapa boxset from Kechara to encourage her in her spirituality, yet in the end writing some what message that “let Karma Drop a house on Kechara”, is this a gratitude of someone who claim to follow Tsem Rinpoche, and someone who did Lama Tsongkhapa Retreat as advice by Rinpoche?
As a Buddhist we should be mindful of our body, speech and mind, and to utter such word is not what a Buddhist should be saying, where is the compassion towards others, even she and the group claim to be more “spiritual” in a sense, why does someone must rejoice in such behavioral speech to a Lama, because He practice Dorje Shugden?
Dear Jairo,
You said you made your comment here after you had studied the situation. However, Martin and others have shown you very clearly, that you hadn’t really studied the situation.
Snodgrass knew very well that she was making a statement which cannot be anything but a death threat, because she made it in a thread whose participants have been endlessly engaged in criticizing and vilifying Tsem Rinpoche, through sheer hatred and animosity. Furthermore, in defending her, you show that you haven’t really seen what the Tibetan community who are anti-Shugdenists can do. You say that Snodgrass made these statements “If he keeps this up, his days in this incarnation will be numbered. In fact if he’s not careful, he may not see the end of the year” in reference to the Tibetan community “whom she is assuming is all under samaya with the Dalai Lama and therefore such an imagined Tibetan community has made all who practice Dorje Shugden the enemies of Buddhism”. You say all this as though you are not aware of how this anti-Shugden community have threatened the lives of Shugden Lamas and practitioners .Threats of death and violence have been carried out and there is ample evidence of this online.
Your ignorance of all this does not justify your calling Tsem Rinpoche a liar.
“STOP LYING Tsem Tulku Rinpoche THERE ARE NO DEATH THREATS!”
I object very strongly to your baselessly and , without proper investigation, calling my Guru – whose entire life has been devoted, with great compassion, to spreading the dharma and benefiting others – a liar!
You would have him and his students ignore the death threat in Snodgrass’s statement, and watch passively for the death threat to be carried out!
You talk about Tsem Rinpoche and his students as having been “karmically incorrect” for saying that Snodgrass has made a death threat against Tsem Rinpoche. What about the “terribly negative karmic” act of calling a karmically potent being , the great and compassionate Lineage Master of Tsongkhapa’s Lineage, Tsem Rinpoche , a liar?
Out of compassion, I worry for you for having said this.
Dear Irene Lim, Wendy Loh, Pastor David Lai, Sarah Yap, Robert Anderson, Lew, Avery Tsen, spchua, Li Kim, and Martin, oh and last but not least His Holiness and Eminence Tsem Tulku Rinpoche your kind guru.
Let me clarify something here. I am NOT saying that the lama is a liar. I am only saying that the lama should “stop lying.” Keep that in mind. There is no disrespect intended. There is a technical difference [between saying “he’s a liar!” and “please stop lying, my kind spiritual guide.”]. Consider the following implementation of this wise method: the protesters organized by the fine people of the Western Shugden Society use this same method, they show signs that say “STOP LYING” in reference to a most high lama in a lineage that came about by way of Lama Je Tsongkapa, the same lineage that Tsem Tulku Rinpoche cherishes. It is fair game to say STOP LYING to any one of any position and no one [who is a true practicing Buddhist] should get upset, for it does not mean that such person is being insulted like it would be by simply saying “he’s a liar”, no, no, no. There is no insult intended. I am absolutely not saying Tsem Tulku is this or that, for if anything, Tsem Tulku is a NON-liar, is truthful, but that statement or premise still allows for the possibility that such wise being is able to produce skillful lies. In other words, “He’s no liar, but he can lie.” You wise and mature Buddhists shouldn’t take these word games [such as saying “STOP LYING”] so personal, anyway, because you know better.
I really like Tsem Tulku Rinpoche. I was using the same “methods” to get you folks your attention. Tsem Tulku Rinpoche is not a liar, but when Tsem Tulku is associated with (and possibly fully responsible for) accusing someone to be threatening his life, without any proof, then we have to consider that publication [found here and shared in Facebook] a form of lying, if not that, then at least it is a form of false accusation and a possible cause of damaging someone’s life [in particular, Patricia Snodgrass]. But still some or all of you will still imagine that I have insulted your great guru. Therefore I will take on your impression and assume that I have insulted your lama, and so I will now proceed to apologize:
I am sorry for any disrespect towards Lama Tsem Tulku Rinpoche. He is not a liar. I hope you accept my apology, and I hope you also accept my apologies in advance for any future insults you imagine I have launched towards any of you. I don’t know if that will work for you, but I put it forward. Okay, I hope saying that I am merely a deluded guy, and I hope you are able to show some kindness and forgiveness for my faulty conceptualizations. Or something like that. Simply put: Give me a break. Thanks.
Oh and also I threw in “THERE ARE NO DEATH THREATS”. Okay, so I will give a benefit of the doubt and assume that you have gathered tons of evidence to show that there are threats to his life. But there are no death threats from Patricia Snodgrass, and if there is then take that evidence to the police and have her arrested immediately. And inform me when you do at my Facebook page at my name Jairo Jamyang Pawo Moreno. Then I will have some more apologizing to do. Thanks. But when I say that “THERE ARE NO DEATH THREATS” I mean that “THERE ARE NO DEATH THREATS coming from Patricia Snodgrass” from her side, inherently, in the lingo of emptiness. Patricia Snodgrass is empty of inherent threat-ness. I hope you get it that way.
I do hope that for the real threats to Tsem Tulku Rinpoche’s life that you take all measures to protect him, but at the same time please be careful, especially in this instance of what I believe is falsely accusing Patricia Snodgrass, even if she has not been your stellar student and has fallen out of favor, you still should give her a benefit of a doubt. She was just saying that the Rinpoche better be careful because there are people out there who may harm him, and she said that as a warning, not as a threat. That’s the impression I got. But instead of seeing it as a warning, you take it out of context and make it into a threat, you take a picture of the thread to show the world evidence that there is someone stating a threat, but upon careful examination, most level headed people will find that there is none; if you present this to unbiased third parties, they will most likely come to my conclusion, that this was only pointing the danger that the lama could generate if he continued to bravely show the world his views on Dorje Shugden, and that such danger would come from other people, not her. But because folks here who have gotten upset with my statements can’t be objective about this whole situation, because you are too invested in Tsem Tulku Rinpoche and your sangha and your administration of this website, then you are not able to see that there was no threat intended by Patricia Snodgrass. Be honest, are you being objective? And if anybody here, after reconsidering what I wrote, can finally see that maybe you were too hasty in your judgment, would you kindly post something to acknowledge this, or are you too scared to state what you believe in, because of your guru devotion you would not do what is write.
Perhaps we need to go back to what some of us may have abandoned [before getting on board with this Vajrayana path], some of us (including me) may have abandoned our childhood religion [Christianity, or Catholicism], except for those whoe haven’t and find Buddhism still compatible with the teachings of Jesus, then you may recall the powerful teachings of Jesus, the one about the woman who was accused of adultery, then Jesus prevented the stoning of her by saying, “If any of you have no sin, then cast the first stone.” or something like that. At least the accusers were honorable enough to admit that they were not free from all sin, and so they dropped their stones and left. In the same way, are you folks throwing stones at [me or even at Patricia Snodgrass, your imagined scapegoat] to show that you are on your guru’s side and to impress others by your loyalty? Then you are abandoning the Buddha’s teachings of being true to yourselves, of examining the situation like you would examine gold. You are perhaps too attached to guru devotion and this has blinded you, and you may be causing great sin [or bad karma, whatever you want to call it] in casting stones at this woman whom you wrongly accuse. Even His Holiness the Dalai Lama has warned against being overly zealous towards your kind guru. If you see him doing something that appears wrong in your heart, then talk to him about it. That was good advise. I hope you are able to implement that advise here. I am not saying that your guru is wrong. I am merely asking you to analyze the situation objectively and watch your mind. Thanks.
Wow, I am sorry to be so harsh. I hope you guys are Buddhist enough to not take this so personally.
Thank you for this lively and cordial debate.
OM VAJRA WIKI WITRANA SOHA
Om Mani Padme Hum.
May you reach enlightenment in this lifetime.
Jairo Jamyang Pawo Moreno
Dear Jairo,
Thank you for making the effort to provide this explanation which is important. Most people being ordinary beings would not be able to grasp the ‘technicality’and subtleties between your language and your intention.
With regards to your position on Snodgrass, it is one thing to read her comments (which to you seems innocent) in isolation but its quite another to read it in light of a series of abuses, insults and what I personally perceive as assault on Rinpoche. The point to remember is this – NO ONE owes anyone any explanation as to why they belief in a certain religious practice. And no one should be made an instrument of politics and no one should have anger and violence directed against them for their religion, skin colour, nationality, gender and sexual orientation. And yet this is happening in abundance to Shugden people.We live in an environment where hate has been allowed to spread for 18 years and people actually get harmed because of it.
IF…IF Patricia Snodgrass has made an error, it is only because she became a part of a hate-site FB which is set up for the sole purpose of disseminating disinformation, lies and to incite people against another group because of their religion. Take a look at that FB community and see if there is an ounce of kindness and fair play there. It is a site where members of the sangha openly create schism which the Buddha warned is a heinous crime that could endanger the dharma and the rest readily cheer them on.
It is not merely a matter of whether Patricia personally threatened Rinpoche but also whether she knows of plans to harm Shugden lamas and she fanned the danger even more. It is also about whether Patricia knows of imminent danger to Rinpoche but is withholding that information. All these are acts that are criminal in nature.
Anyway its in the hands of the law now and I shall leave it at that.
Again, thank you for making this effort Jairo.
Dear Jairo
Thank you for offering a different perspective of Patricia’s comments. After reading your post here, I analysed Ms. Snodgrass’s posts. I do come to this conclusion – when the post about Rinpoche’s may not see the end of the year is read by itself and when it is read together with a collection of her other posts, it does give a different perspective and meaning. When it is read together with her other negative comments – it is clear that Ms. Snodgrass does not have good intention toward our Rinpoche. So I hope you also respect our position and interpretation of her comments.
Our Rinpoche is very precious to us and we would like to protect him as best as we can in a fair and lawful manner possible.
I apologize that if our responses to your comments have caused you any irritation. And thank you for the effort to give us a different perspective to read Ms. Snodgrass’s post.
Kind regards
Valentina
Dear Jairo
I don’t see any of your sincerity at all even you try to apology and yet re-twist your apologize.
Recognizing you as a freelance psychiatrist, you twisted and turn your tongue, using your language to distract and to further insults and disparage our Guru, the Kechara and everyone who reading this blog post. You never ever mention a single line of words on the wrong doing of the hater group and their post; instead, you keep on suspicious and blamed the victims. You are egoistic, deluded and ignorance. You are full of SHITs!
Om Benza Wiki Bitana Soha: May all negativities or mankind be Purify
Om Benza Wiki Bitana Soha: May all hates and anger of mankind be Subdue
Om Benza Wiki Bitana Soha: May all being live in harmony
Om Benza Wiki Bitana Soha: May HHDL see the Causes of his beloved follower Degenerate
Om Benza Wiki Bitana Soha: May HHDL Stop the discriminations and unfair treatment of Shugden Practitioners
Om Benza Wiki Bitana Soha: May HHDL immediately Stop the Ban on King Protector – Dorje Shugden
Om Benza Wiki Bitana Soha. May Tsem Tulku Rinpoche always in good health and live long to spread Dharma
Dear Jiaro Jamyang
The second perspective of your comment that you are trying to justify your first comment is just about beating the bush. It would be easier for you if you call a spade a spade.
The death threat is a valid one. It is not just imaginary or getting panicky out of nothing as you can see clearly the writing and the words in black and white; how the sentences are formed. The haters on this group are focusing day in and day out their hatred on Shugden people. Probably some of them need counselling to heal. Death threats from haters who are anti Shugden group mustn’t be taken lightly. There are cases where Shugden practitioners were harmed, murdered, abused and attacked just because they were devoted to World Peace Protector Dorje Shugden who is none other than Wisdom Buddha Manjushri.
The world is getting degenerated. People have become ridiculously weird with tendency to commit negativities. As students and friends of Rinpoche it is our duty to protect Rinpoche to ensure no harm comes to him. Rinpoche is extremely precious and brings tremendous benefit to many and will continue to benefit limitless beings. What will the world be without him! It is similar to extinguishing a light to the darkness in the night. I shudder at the mere thought. We cannot take any chance to let this death threat go unheeded without taking any precaution.
Some Shugden Lamas have bodyguards 24/7 after receiving death threats. No one can guarantee if these haters will not run amok to commit crimes as they are filled with intense animosities and hatred in their hearts. Yes, we need to have compassion on these haters but without taking precaution to protect Rinpoche would be our folly for certain.
Dear deluded accusers of Snodgrass [for accusing Snodgrass of having committed the crime of a death threat aimed at the Lama His Eminence Tsem Tulku Rinpoche],
Snodgrass has attempted clarify her true intentions, and even tried to apologize, even though she probably didn’t need to apologize, being that she has been wrongfully and unfairly accused of a crime with no evidence, only accusations made by so called Buddhists connected with Kechara. I don’t know any of you. I don’t know Snodgrass. I only go by reading what has been going on in this thread and the original thread on Facebook, and I can only say that you guys look ridiculous and it doesn’t help the cause of bringing greater understanding and removing the ban. I only see things get worse, not because I am omniscient or have a “plan”, but because so far things have gotten worse since it started early this month. Actually I shouldn’t say that, I may get accused of some threat of some kind, or some other crime, or be threatened with words to make me fear something about the karma I may get for doing this and that. So I should instead hope for the best, and say that may this ban end before the end of this year, and may we live happily ever after and may Shugden practitioners gain respect they deserve.
But I just have to point out the blind beliefs propagated by people supposedly high up in this Kechara community, and the unfair treatment towards Snodgrass, and that it seems to continue.
Pastor Han Nee writes “Snodgrass knew very well that she was making a statement which cannot be anything but a death threat, because she made it in a thread whose participants have been endlessly engaged in criticizing and vilifying Tsem Rinpoche, through sheer hatred and animosity.”
Okay what is that statement which cannot be anything but a death threat? What would you submit in a court of law, or to the police? There is no denying that Snodgrass was in a thread which was designed to disparage Dorje Shugden practitioners, and this particular thread started off with showing how large the Dorje Shugden statue was in comparison to the Buddha Shakyamuni as a way to sort of prove that Shugden worshippers have their priorities backwards and so like-minded people came on to criticize Tsem Tulku Rinpoche. But if there was really a death threat, then would the person or society not publish it and direct it personally towards Tsem Tulku Rinpoche in order to coerce him into changing his ways (that is, his actions and teachings on Dorje Shugden)?
“A death threat is a threat, often made anonymously, by one person or a group of people to kill another person or groups of people. These threats are often designed to intimidate victims in order to manipulate their behavior, and thus a death threat can be a form of coercion. For example, a death threat could be used to dissuade a public figure from pursuing a criminal investigation or an advocacy campaign.
” That definition is according to a Wikipedia article on Death Threat.
And often a death threat is made anonymously, according to the Wikipedia article. How often is often? Who knows? But of those death threats which are made non-anonymously, obviously there must be a way for the criminal to remain safely hidden. As for example, a terrorist group making death threats to a head of a powerful country, I would think that such people or person would do so with confidence that they are well hidden or guarded, as in caves somewhere in the desert, or in populations where the language and culture is different and so it is difficult for the powerful country to keep track of the criminals. And I would think that it would take lots of money to make a death threat and remain unreachable or protected by a society that supports the attack.
Datuk May Phng made a statement at the beginning of this page which was irresponsible, slanderous towards others, and designed to fan the flames of hatred (towards the other camp — the anti-Shugden folks, and the CTA, the “enemies” we Shugden Buddhists should all love and show compassion for) by stating without any evidence that there is a death threat declared on that thread found on Facebook and expressed by Snodgrass, as if Snodgrass was stating what was on the minds of all of them on that thread, the thread that was a conversation between two or three, one of them being a monk who does express negative thoughts towards any Shugden practitioners, Tsem Tulku Rinpoche and the NKT, but it was only Snodgrass who made a warning that went, or at least was concerned that (let me paraphrase as follows) if the Lama continued his activities [of promoting Dorje Shugden], then there is the danger that he might not make it to the end of this year [as a result of some fanatic in the Tibetan (or Mongolian) anti-Shugden community.
Datuk May Phng interpretes particular statements in the thread and in particular the statements of Snodgrass as evidence of a death threat, which is ridiculous because real death threats are not done in that way, they are directed at the person and often anonymously, in order to coerce them to change their ways.
Datuk May Phng writes “Their conduct constitutes planning for violence and harm against Rinpoche. More significantly, their conviction leads me to believe that they have pre-meditated and inside knowledge about actions that will be taken against Rinpoche just because he practices Dorje Shugden. Otherwise, how else do they know that Rinpoche will not live to see the end of this year? How can they be so specific about the timeline?”
If Snodgrass meant the threats then she would respond in this thread that yes she has the power to make it happen, unless the Rinpoche changes his ways. But instead she came on this thread to defend herself and make her intentions known.
patriciasnodgrass wrote on Apr 10, 2015 at 8:41 pm
I know you will delete this but I hope you will take the time to read it in the spirit it is written before you do so. What I wrote about Rinpoche was NEVER intended as being threatening to him or to Kechara. Yes, I felt truly deceived and hurt by Kechara but I NEVER intended harm to ANYONE. Those of you who know me know that is NOT my way. My writing was instead intended for CONCERN for Rinpoche because as you know internet rumors are making horrible threats against his person. We are no longer friends but I still hold some affection toward kechara.I just didn’t want to see anyone hurt. My ONLY desire now is to be left alone. Please make this happen. Thank you.”
Later Snodgrass again tries to clarify her intentions to those who incessantly accuse her. Snodgrass wrote:
patriciasnodgrass on Apr 11, 2015 at 7:41 am
”
David, I DID NOT under any circumstances threaten the life of Rinpoche or anyone else. You all know that is not my way. I expressed concern over something I read over the internet a few months ago and that is all. The people I was talking to on line assured me that that incident could not occur so I dropped it. The hysteria brought up over this is dumbfounding to me. I adored rinpoche and still do. I would NEVER harm him. Earlier this morning I posted an apology and I see it is now gone. I don’t understand all this vitriol, but i do promise I will NEVER do it again.
”
But people assume that since Datuk May Phng, and Pastor Han Nee accusation of Snodgrass must be the truth, then they go on to hate and threaten Snodgrass with the law and bad karma coming to her. It becomes a shocking linch mob showing passion for the Rinpoche and threats that if anything happens to the Rinpoche that Snodgrass is gonna get it. That’s more of a threat than the Rinpoche got.
Li Kheng on Apr 13, trying to reduce the hateful tone of writing directed at Snodgrass, wrote:
“I humbly request you to be respectful in tone when expressing your thoughts. Additionally, when making strong statements about other individuals like Patricia Snodgrass and Carol McGuire, we must do not do so based on assumptions alone. This is to protect the vision of this blog as well as newer readers who come here.”
So thanks to supposed “Buddhists” like Datuk May Phng, we have a mob rule which has accepted as fact that Snodgrass made a death threat and now this mob has developed so much hate and anger towards Snodgrass that there is more evidence of a real death threat towards Snodgrass than there ever was towards the Lama.
A post written by Disgusting on Apr 11, 2015 sure seems like a threat to me: “Your big mouth and hatred is going to do you in. I recommend Kechara to take full legal action on you to teach you and other haters to stop spewing hate. Let the law decide.”
“do you in” sure sounds like a threat intended to ending Snodgrass’ life, and therefore constitutes a death threat, according to the loose ways Snodgrass’s writings were treated in the Facebook thread.
And another fanatic writes: “She does not want dialogue but only hatred and inciting hatred and murder. Now stupid Snodgrass fell for it and she will be the scapegoat.” And later the same person writes: “Everyday of silence can mean something is happening and it will blow up and you will deal with the law.”
If there is any threat, it often comes from some Anonymous. And after Snodgrass posted here to defend herself and state her true intentions and to clarify her position that she did not intend to make a death threat, people will still not accept it and will instead threaten her with the law, as follows by this Anonymous:
“If something happens to Rinpoche, you are under the radar along with your WNTTAS group who participated. You started this. It will not end well. If anything happens to Rinpoche, you are going to be pursued by the full extent of international law with all the resources backing it up I am sure. But be sure that even before this happens, everything you say and do will be recorded and reported as advised.”
That sure sounds like a threat to me, although not a death threat, it is still a threat directed at Snodgrass. They are threatening her with the law. Now what if someone else were to cause harm to the Rinpoche, would that give this Anonymous person and other fanatics like them the right to prosecute and harm Snodgrass, just to have some kind of good feeling of closure and justice, and revenge?
Do you see what you, Datuk May Phng and others who jump on the band wagon, have done? Falsely accused an innocent, although ignorant as any of us, person such as Snodgrass, and used her as your scapegoat and poster child of those who pose a threat to Tsem Tulku Rinpoche. You need to come up with something better than that if you want to generate sympathy for the religious discrimation and so forth. You folks who agree with the statements made by Datuk May Phng without carefully and objectively reading through the thread on Facebook, only solidify the status quo, and folks like Pastor Han Nee make things worse. You are only continuing to battle the hate with hate, and you seem to follow the old school law of an eye for eye, the one with which we will all go blind, sad to say. I am disillusioned and disappointed with common practitioners of Buddhism. Not only with the behavior of the anti-Shugden folks but also with the Shugden folks.
I need to look at myself too. Perhaps we need to go back to the basics of the three jewels and make the Dharma the real protector.
Martin adds another dimension by writing:
“It is not merely a matter of whether Patricia personally threatened Rinpoche but also whether she knows of plans to harm Shugden lamas and she fanned the danger even more. It is also about whether Patricia knows of imminent danger to Rinpoche but is withholding that information. All these are acts that are criminal in nature. ”
So if she did know of plans to harm the Rinpoche then she would probably have already submitted that information to Kechara and to Tsem Rinpoche, and then we might have a legitimate death threat or at least she would be a lead to finding those who were planning to harm the Rinpoche. Assuming that she hasn’t submitted any new information, then there is the possibility that she is withholding evidence and that would really harm her, or that she simply doesn’t have any knowledge or evidence of a plan, but mere speculation. So we must seriously consider that there is the possibility that she was merely concerned and she wrote that concern in the form that she did, as an expression of worry that she suspects that there are people out there who are so extremely against Dorje Shugden practitioners that they might do harm to the Rinpoche and that it could occur within this year. However, if she did intend a death threat then she would obviously need to withhold the plan, and she would most probably have expressed the death threat not in a conversation between her and others in that thread but directly towards the Rinpoche on his website or on his page, and she would probably need to demonstrate ability to carry out such killing in order to make it an effective death threat. But if we take another look at her picture, it sure doesn’t look like a killer capable of killing anything but a bug, or something of that size in her vicinity. Besides, it doesn’t look like she is in good enough shape to get out of the couch to cause harm to any person. A typical killer needs to be a somewhat on the athletic side and know some martial arts, and know how to use weapons, or poisons, in order to carry out a killing of another person. If she was to carry out a killing indirectly, she would need to have enough money to pay someone to do it, but she can barely take care of herself as has been mentioned by people who know her.
So the more this fiasco goes on, the more ridiculous this accusation becomes. The accusation that Snodgrass is threatening the life of Tsem Tulku Rinpoche is ridiculous and only makes everyone who accepts this position as true to be a ridiculous person, a fool, and delusional. Oops, I need to tone it down a bit.
But at least please show me evidence that there are enlightened people on this thread. Please show me where the death threat is. If you can’t, I am sorry to say that you have only caused greater hatred, and have disappointed the cause for understanding and bringing down the ban.
Om Ah Hum.
Jairo Jamyang Pawo Moreno
Why you want to defend Patricia so much when she talked about Tsem Rinpoche dying? Are you being paid by her? Are you being paid by the Tibetan government? What’s wrong with you? I agree with the poster above. You are blaming the rape victim for being raped, instead of the rapist for not controlling himself.
Go and tell Patricia and their group to watch their speech. You are condoning their speech and their behaviour. Actually you are DEFENDING their behaviour. So if something happens to Tsem like that old monk who was stabbed, I hope Tsem’s group also hold you accountable because maybe you had something to do with it too. Why? I don’t see any of her friends writing such long long messages on Tsem’s blog defending her. Only you. So it really makes me wonder why you are doing it. Maybe you are being paid by her?
By the way, you don’t like what is being written on the blog, you don’t have to read it you know. Clearly no one here agrees with you, and only you seem to be supporting Patricia. Since you seem to be supporting Patricia, it really makes me wonder what your connection is with her.
Dear Rose,
Sorry to disturb you and perhaps annoy you with my persistence. Wow, how did you figured me out. Yes I am paid $10,000 a day to defend Patricia, because she hired me to defend her, because nobody else will. Just kidding. Oops. Now I am in big trouble because they are going to capture this in a jpeg and upload it to some posts around Facebook to accuse me of wacky things. And just you wait, they are going to underline in red that I get paid that crazy amount and make a big deal out of it and throw me in jail along with Snodgrass, or at least make me another one of their scapegoats and use my writings as evidence of threats. So ridiculous, it’s gotten out of hand. It’s like little children fighting in a playground.
Actually, I would like to donate a few dollars to Patricia just to help her in her probable legal needs because it looks like some folks here want her to get punished through the legal process of the law and the police, I imagine, I have no evidence of this, but I speculate something like this might happen. And I barely make it paycheck to paycheck, and wished I never spent so much time last night on the last post, it took so long that I lost my bus ride home because no buses run after a certain time, so I had to sleep over at the office where I work pushing paper, actually scanning and uploading paper.
I wish somebody else besides Rose would answer to my last post and debate with me in a focused, congenial, and respectful manner, because Rose can only argue by showing pictures of an old monk having been harmed by some other lunatics, or by comparing this case of death threat to rape and rapist, but maybe there is something to it. I do wish protection for Tsem Rinpoche from all possible dangers, and I am annoyed by the ban and the poor reasons given by HH the Dalai Lama for it. So I am in favor of what some organizations are doing up to a point. I don’t like that they refer to the Dalai Lama as the False Dalai Lama, that seems rather offensive to many Tibetans and Tibetan Buddhists and I would think would be offensive to Tsem Tulku Rinpoche, so I would like to see some statements made by him with respect to this. You know how it must feel if someone calls your Lama a liar, as I did, so you would think that you would also like to see a change in tactics by the ISC and the protests in reference to the use of “False Dalai Lama, Stop Lying”. I don’t think that’s going to down well in gaining understanding and getting people on the same page, and if the Dalai Lama can undo the ban, then utmost respect should be given to him, and this will help make that change happen.
I just wish there was somebody else here that would show true Buddhist compassion towards Snodgrass and would look at the past events objectively without Bias and without agendas from either side. Is there a wisdom Buddha here who can engage us here in analytical meditation to familiarize ourselves with this case and come to a correct understanding, instead of wild accusations based upon the incorrect conclusions of leaders of Kechara?
Thank you again for your thoughtful consideration in this matter.
Om Mani Padme Hum,
Jairo Jamyang Pawo.
What do you think?
Actually my time is 5:59 PM Eastern Time (in Florida) 4/23/2015
Oops. Correction to the previous post. I didn’t call your Lama a Liar. I only asked him to Stop Lying. There’s a technical difference. I caught myself on that just now. Now it’s too late, potentially. Oh well. Call me a liar if you like.
Thanks for being patient with me.
May we all get along sooner than later. Long life to HH the 14th Dalai Lama, AND to HE Tsem Tulku Rinpoche, AND all great Lamas of all traditions.
Om Ah Hum
Jairo Jamyang Pawo.
Its totally insane for a buddhist to hurl death threats against a Guru. Where’s the compassion? We have individual rights to worship whatever or whoever we want. It’s totally insane. I pray that the Three Jewels bless the people have ill intentions – May they be blessed with compassion.
May Dorje Shugden bless our Guru Rinpoche, our Kechara Pastors, fellow Kecharians and their families and all sentient beings
Regards
Leonard Ooi
It seems from reading the above post again that they thought that lama Tsongkapa was less worshipped than Dorje Shugden. This is Dorje Shugden’s hall. The lama Tsongkapa statue was just put there to bless the environment and has a permanent home elsewhere. Tsem has other halls with lama Tsongkapa that are just as large as the Dorje Shugden statue.
Tsem is a great leader. I have watched several hundred of his videos and found nothing but compassion and care for all. His main goal is to change your inner mind to save you from yourself. Video after Video i have watched him helping others. Between his 1000 youtube videos (probably 10,000 + hours of dharma), running this blog, and looking after his retreat i don’t even think the guy sleeps. He has put others needs above his own and practices the heart of dharma.
It is customary not to tell your protector to people that ask. It is also not appropriate to ask someone’s protector. Only recently was he told to tell the world about his affiliation with Dorje Shugden by his lama. So naturally to honor his root guru he built a great hall for Shugden and start sharing all of the info he knows about it. He is not putting Dorje Shugden above Lama Tsongkapa, but rather has much info already out on lama Tsongkapa. What he is doing is trying to leave his legacy of his knowledge for the world when he is gone.
If he were in this to get rich im sure he could have collected a long time ago and disappeared into a large private place of his own. I have never met my guru face to face but yet he has sent me thousands worth of statues, pendants, and poster’s to help my practice grow. I have nothing to give in return. It’s not just me who he has helped but thousands of others including the person who wished him harm. He deserves better than this. He has dedicated his life to helping Everyone!!!
I watched a Zong Rinpoche video where he said “changing a guru is like building a house foundation and the deciding to pick another location”. “Be careful or you will have land full of foundation’s and no house at the end”. The house is enlightenment and we can’t build it if we are switching from site to site. Guru Devotion does not mean when we disagree or find out something we don’t like that we leave. It means we keep up our practice for the love of our guru and don’t judge him.
I just wanted to state this for anyone to keep their faith strong. He is a great teacher and you can’t go wrong choosing to follow him. He will only set good examples for you. I am not paid to say this. In fact i feel bad anout getting the gifts i got and do not want any money because i feel i owe back what i take. But the more you watch his videos…the more you will clear the ignorance…… and the more you will realize that you have made the right choice trusting in him.
I support him no mater what he does about this situation. I mainly wrote it for lurkers on the other side or new people to shine a light into the darkness…..hope i helped someone 🙂
Dear Mr. Anderson,
Thank you so much for taking your time to share your thoughts on Rinpoche with us!
You are absolutely right about Rinpoche that He puts others’ needs before His own. It is true that Rinpoche seldom sleep and you can see Him working continuously without sleep for days just so He can do more to benefit more people. It is also true that if Rinpoche’s intention is solely to get money, He could have taken all and enjoy His life in somewhere nice and quiet. Why would He continues to work so hard and put Himself into such difficult positions to bear all burdens in building and maintaining a dharma centre and so generously give gifts to people He has not met consistently?
We all know that Rinpoche has very strong Guru Devotion and He has kept Kyabje Zong Dorje Chang’s advice to practise Dorje Shugden. People have to understand that this practise was given to Rinpoche by Kyabje Zong Dorje Chang who has already entered clear light. Asking Rinpoche to stop this practise is the same as asking Rinpoche to ignore Kyabje Rinpoche’s advice and to break the samaya between Kyabje Rinpoche and Rinpoche. How can this be encouraged knowing that the basis of enlightenment in Tibetan Buddhism is to rely on one’s Spiritual Guide?
What you have watched from Rinpoche’s teachings on Youtube and on this blog is what you really see in Rinpoche. He walks the walk. Full stop. Anyone who is trying to say otherwise or threatened His life for teaching and practising the dharma cannot be left aside and continue with their bad deeds. Their actions must be made known and they must be responsible for them!
The highest offerings is to offer the dharma, which is the main ingredient that liberate us ultimately. So by sladering, defaming, harassing so to sabotage Rinpoche’s dharma work and offerings, is the same as cutting others’ chance to be liberated ultimately. This is very serious and unacceptable! No real Buddhist will ever do that especially when they have practised and experience dharma themselves.
Therefore we will do all that we can to protect Rinpoche and to help these group of people from creating further negative deeds for themselves and others. This is very necessary!
Thank you again!
With much appreciation,
Pastor Adeline
It is apparent Snodgrass knew and boasted death threat on Rinpoche’s life. There is no denial to the fact that something fishy is brewing behind the scene for Snodgrass to write what she knew online. This is definitely serious and cannot be taken lightly especially Rinpoche’s life is at stake or any human life is at stake.
Why even pray, go in retreats and recite holy mantras when their hearts are full of hatred. How disgusting to see how the group in WNTTAS encourage each other to fire up their passion in hating and trying to destroy others. Are they truly Buddhists? Who is this monk, Siling Tongkhor, if he is a real monk? How despicable they utterly rejoice at someone’s death!! Their own karma will surely catch up on them if they truly believe there is the universal law of karma that no one can run away from
.
Of course it is obvious there is a Shugden BAN that give rise to all these craps and haters to boldly attack, murder, scorn, insult and issue life threats to many Shugden Lamas and Buddhists. This ban and discrimination must stop now for peace to be restored and pervade in the world.
Some people got all the benefits from Rinpoche and students, yet now turn their back to curse and talk bad just because we practice Dorje Shugden.
That person who received so many benefits and gifts from Rinpoche, and also money donations from students, is hinting for Rinpoche to be killed and rejoicing in the thought.
When she received our gifts and money we were angels, now we’re demon.
Why behave in such an uncivilised manner yet claimed to be a Buddhist?
What was her intention to write such statement on a haters’ FB post? She was so gungho about ‘attacking’ Rinpoche and Kechara. Seems she tried very hard to please them and to be in their good book.
Hatred and revenge had corrupted her mind.
Where in the Buddha’s teachings that ask us to curse people? Or wish harm onto others?
The anti-Shugden people claimed they have freedom of speech but what about the freedom for us to practice what we believe?
Hatred, Greed and Ignorance are the 3 poisons mentioned by Buddha to be the root cause of all our sufferings.
May the haters able to remove their hatred and discrimination against Dorje Shugden practitioners.
May they find peace and happiness by following the real teachings of Buddha – to develop compassion and wisdom.
May our Lama H.E. Tsem Rinpoche be safe alwats. May Rinpoche has stable health and live long to spread Dharma, especially Je Tsongkhapa’s teaching, in ten directions for the benefits of all sentient beings.
Pastor Gim Lee
To repay someone’s kindness with hatred, anger and even death threat is totally a wrong doing in the aspect of both worldly concern and spiritual practice, which will only end up in heavy karma especially if the kindness and blessings we have received are coming from our own precious Guru, who only wants the best for us without agenda.
I have been praying for the safety, good health and long life for my Guru, Tsem Rinpoche every day. For now, I will even pray for Patricia Snodgrass and all the anti-Dorje Shugden groups so that they will soon realize their hurtful, divisive and baseless speech are the opposite of what was being taught by Buddha Shakyamuni. These negative actions can only bring harm to themselves due to the law of cause and effect.
It is very sad to see and hear that our Buddhist friends have created the offence to the high Lamas who pray and follow Dorje Shugden’s practice. These high Lamas did not return the similar offence back to them but patiently endure the unnecessary pressure, physical and mentally sufferings.
The current situation shows we desperately need a world peace Dharma Protector of our time to counter the fast moving degenerate age that blind folded many deluded minds who have spoken and reacted not according to what Buddha has taught us, but merely based on their self centered thinking and ignorance without considering the effects of each negative action, speech or thought. I humbly pray that all the Buddhists in this world can be united and spread the beautiful teachings from the Lord Buddha which contain kindness, compassion to all, right views, right conduct and right speech.
This group called ‘We Need To Talk About Shugden’ (WNTTAS) in Facebook was started by an ex-NKT member Carol McQuire. She is the administrator/moderator of the group and supposed to ‘guide’ her group’s members to focus on “support His Holiness the Dalai Lama and believe his actions and speech to be based on integrity, clarity and compassion” as she stated clearly in the ‘About’ section of the group.
You can go to the page and see how the behaviour and speech of the WNTTAS’s members contradict the focus of the group. By supporting His Holiness, McQuire and the WNTTAS’s members should be taking His Holiness teachings to heart and to learn from His actions and speech that is based on integrity, clarity and compassion. Speak ill of anyone is completely against His Holiness’s teachings.
Not only do these people not represent His Holiness well, they (including a ‘monk’ Siling Tongkhor) encourage hateful and ill speech on Shugden practitioners as a whole. Recently they have focus specifically on our Guru, His Eminence Tsem Rinpoche, and our world’s largest Dorje Shugden statue https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/kechara-13-depts/largest-dorje-shugden-in-the-world.html house in the Wisdom Hall of Kechara Forest Retreat, Malaysia.
On this post by Siling Tongkhor who belongs to the Sera Mey Monastery, featuring Kechara’s world’s largest Dorje Shugden statue, we find comments that contain hate speech, threatening words, as well as personal attack statements that bully, intimidate and harass our Guru and His organisation – Kechara. It is clearly stated in the Facebook ‘Statement of Rights and Responsibilities’ here https://www.facebook.com/legal/terms that these behaviours are not acceptable. Though Facebook has not taken any actions so far, we are aware of how we are being protected legally and the supporting legal policies applicable to ensure the safety of our Guru and His organisation.
Among these comments, the most shocking ones, not to mention those made by the ‘monk’ Siling Tongkhor and others, are from Patricia Snodgrass who used to follow Rinpoche on this blog and all social media platforms. She used to be very friendly with us and asked us to support her financially for her poor conditions – a sick husband and few cats to feed. Many of our members donated money to her and numerous dharma gifts including statues etc. were gifted to her through courier service by Rinpoche to aid her spiritual practice. Rinpoche understands how difficult it is for Westerner to access to dharma locally and it is very common that Rinpoche send loads of gifts, sometimes a complete altar setup, to people around the world. How often do we meet a person like Rinpoche who takes care of a person’s needs to the finest details like this? Rarely.
For someone who has received so much kindness and generosity from Rinpoche and His students, Snodgrass is definitely an ungrateful person. Being ungrateful is bad enough, but Rinpoche-bashing and threatened the life of Rinpoche is the worst and are totally unacceptable! From her comment “If he keeps this up, his days in this incarnation will be numbered. In fact, if he’s not careful, he may not see the end of the year” we are convinced that she is wishing harm on Rinpoche, threatening His safety and life, as well as wishing Him dead within a year! By clearly giving a specific time frame, we are convinced that she is planning for the death of Rinpoche and actions are in place to make sure His life will end within a year.
We are now taking all serious measures and precautions to ensure the safety of Rinpoche. If anything happens to Rinpoche, we know who to investigate on – Snodgrass and many at WNTTAS who supports her threat and allowing her to express herself freely in the group. Keeping quite is equally liable as this is no difference than an act of an accomplice in crime.
To Snodgrass, Siling Tongkhor, Carol McQuire, all of you in WNTTAS and in all social media platforms and elsewhere, we will not keep quiet and back down for all that you have done to us and to the Shugdenpas worldwide! We take your words and your actions seriously whether you are real or hiding behind a fake identification. We know the international law, our rights and the protections we are entitled to well enough to find you accountable for all your speech and actions!
Dear Kechara brothers and sisters,
I think we should do our best to forgive the people who don’t understand compassion enough, so as to say what they say.
People often express statements like the above out of fear, out of insecurity. It doesn’t necessarily mean they are evil people. If we could enlarge our hearts, oftentimes we can attempt to understand them, and be compassionate.
Being truly kind often makes us feel lonely. Lonely because very few would understand how much you love, and care. It can be taken for granted, and yet, because it’s beautiful, it’s worth it.
Before understanding the story of Dorje Shugden through the comic book I’ve read in Kechara House, I held the same fears for Dorje Shugden. However, once I learned about his life, and how he turned into Dorje Shugden, I couldn’t help but feel a little pain for what happened to him. I felt as though I understood his loneliness. Being kind and compassionate, being pure, but still being the target of other’s hate despite a beautiful heart.
I have not proceeded to embrace Dorje Shugden yet, but if there was a time if I pass by his statue, I believe I will at least still pay my respects. I believe that anyone creating separation, or being the source of separation, is causing pain to others and is not being kind or compassionate.
Perhaps even the most evil beings… oftentimes deserve compassion. I am not strong enough to do that yet, but, I do hope that I’ll be blessed with the capability to bring warmth even to those unkind, so that everyone can eventually come together in love and peace.
Kechara gave me the confidence to live more compassionately. Buddhism taught me that it is ok to be kind.
Although I am not perfect in practicing them all the time, I have come to see beauty in life by living as much as possible in accordance with them. I’d like to share this feeling of why we learned Buddhism again.
Thanks, and may we spread more kindness and beauty through our existence.
Sincerely,
Seth
Dear Seth,
I understand what you are saying. And I am glad that in Buddhism and from Kechara you have learnt to live more compassionately. So have I 🙂
However, I have also learnt that being compassionate does not mean not making a stand for what you believe in and being a door-mat. Since we have both benefitted from Kechara where the teachings of Tsem Rinpoche is housed, the more we must protect Tsem Rinpoche and Kechara. Imagine how much more people can benefit from living compassionately. Should Rinpoche be killed or harmed terribly, what will happen to Kechara?
If we are to allow people like Patricia Snodgrass to make life threatening statements in the public what does that make us? In silence we condone it. Thus, where is the compassion to the one who has benefitted so many others?
Therefore, we at Kechara and the many friends in this world, are practising compassion – The compassion to protect our Guru Tsem Rinpoche.
As much as I hear what you mean about compassion to these haters, I would also like to ask since they too are Buddhists (apparently) where is their compassion? The issue of issuing life threatening statements is no longer an issue of religion or being Buddhist but an act of crime in the name of religion. And we have all seen how much damage that brings to the world.
May Rinpoche live long and people who threaten his life be brought to light and justice.
Dear Li Kim and Seth,
Yes, I agree with your sentiments. Sometimes making a stand for something we believe in is a compassionate act because we shouldn’t perpetuate the energy of bullying by the other parties. However, as you have also made it clear throughout this posting, we do not over do it so as to cause deeper hatred and misunderstandings. We don’t promote hate speech.
What was written by Patricia Snograss on that thread is definitely a death threat to my guru’s life. It seems that she is writing out of anger and hatred and she has some insider information. She also seems to be enjoying herself threatening Rinpoche’s life and garnering support from the group. You really can see a person’s true colours when she can turn around and bite when all she got from Rinpoche are advices, gifts and assistance.
This is an example of what Dorje Shugden practitioners worldwide has to go through each day, all the slandering, discrimination and threats. This is what is happening out there where families are thorn apart, friends become enemies, people are hurt and death occurs, just because of different religious beliefs. Why can’t people live in harmony and practice what they want in peace? Why does people have to speak evil of another persons freedom of choice? This ban on Dorje Shugden has nothing good from it and should be lifted by the CTA as soon as possible.
From the post above, we can witness that is what anti-shugden people are doing trying to wipe out Shugden practitioners. And a monk going against another monk. How Buddhist is this?
It is truly appalling to see the conversations and negative comments these ignorant people are making!
If you are a practitioner of Tibetan Buddhism, you would have known that Buddha Shakyamuni and Buddha Manjushri are of the same nature. Both are fully enlightened Buddhas! A bigger and higher Dorje Shugden statue does not make a smaller Buddha Shakyamuni statue less supreme!
Despite various explanations about Dorje Shugden being an emanation of Buddha Manjushri, these individuals chose to believe Dorje Shugden as a spirit. That is their prerogative and Dorje Shugden practitioners had not interfered with their choices. But why do they incessantly condemn Dorje Shugden practitioners about their Dorje Shugden practices until the point of threatening a lama’s life?
How would you feel if others disapprove of your “Buddhist” practices and threaten your life? The extremely negative behaviour here on the social media slandering a lama’s reputation, inciting and provoking others to threaten a lama’s life are acts of terrorism!
These are in additions to causing a disrepute to Tibetan Buddhism, creating disharmony, schism, doubts, hurtful and harmful speeches, spreading lies and so on.
What ever happened to Patricia Snodgrass’s conscience when she had received benefit from a lama’s teachings and his care that now she has turned round to attack him? I fear for the repercussions of her negative actions!
How very unbecoming of Siling Tongkhor to be involved in these negative remarks and comments, encouraging others to have doubts, to create negative speeches and death threats to a lama. Is Siling Tongkhor practising purely and sincerely what a monk should?
Let those who hate Dorje Shugden and Dorje Shugden followers be aware, if you continue to indulge in harmful negative actions on the internet, the wheel of sharp weapons will return full circle upon you from the wrongs that you have done.
Enough of these nonsense of how Dorje Shugden followers should or should not practise Dorje Shugden! It is time we take legal actions against these irresponsible and unkind personalities!
As a writer of sorts, Patricia should be very aware that words can create wars or bring peace. Being one who uses words and make a living from writing, it is really irresponsible and disgusting for her to make such statements that hint at Tsem Rinpoche will be harmed at such and such a time. But such are the
sentiments and actions that anti Dorje Shugden people do all the time. Just because there is a ban on Dorje Shugden and it is backed up by the Dalai lama and CTA. Dorje Shudgen people, lamas can be threatened, abused and if possible harmed. When people start wearing the anti Dorje Shugden hat, all
reason and spirituality leaves them, they even cease to be Buddhist IMHO.
The ban has gone on for 20 plus years now, there is no benefit to the Tibetans, Freedom for Tibet is no closer than before, there are many camps of people now at odds with one another, many people spending their time arguing, debating writing and ignoring their spiritual practice that they should be doing. China is now beginning to take note of the Dorje Shugden issue and likening it to a tool
for CTA and Dalai Lama to create division amongst tibetans in china controlled Tibet…. It is high time for this ban to end before more people are harmed by it.
This is how much a DS lama has to endure, this is only just a tip of the iceberg. There are people who set up groups on social media to carry out their hate campaign, making personal attack and claims that are baseless just because we are DS practitioners, forgetting how much benefits and good we have done to the society in Malaysia and people overseas. We are doing our Dharma work and spreading Dharma without creating problems to anyone, working really hard to raise fund and make Dharma knowledge available for free in various internet platforms but yet people just sit behind their computers and start attacking us. What are their intentions? So that we break down and so thousands of people lose their opportunity to learn Dharma?
We as the students of Tsem Rinpoche will not tolerate death threat from anyone, this is way too much. It is not about we are a Buddhist so we should be compassionate to accept anything people do to us, it is someone’s life we are talking about!
To begin with, if these people in the hate campaign are truly Buddhists, why would they create a group that is full of anger and hatred? If they are so called survivors, what they are doing is clearly not to help other survivors to move on, but to encourage their anger to grow stronger.
What is shocking is the statement made by the monk Siling Tongkhor, where is his compassion? What has he learned in the monastery all these year? Does he as a monk give Dharma teachings at all? If this is what he is going to teach, it is very worrying.
Yes, I went to research on Siling Tongkhor and he is a monk in Sera Mey and he holds a Spritual DIRECROR of a Khamtsen. I am amazed he actually encourages these harmful conversation on his facebook page. He could easily put a stop to it as it is on his page that these threats are mentioned!!
You NOT believing in the practice of Dorje Shugden is an entire different topic which we are very open to a healthy debate or sharing of information just like in the monastery. But to encourage a death threat is just absurd and uncalled for. And he is a MONK. Not just an ordinary monk but a monk with position in the monastery. He definitely have given a bad name to the monastery.
I hope His Holiness The Dalai Lama and the Abbot of Sera Mey sees this. This monk is encouraging hatred, malicious intend and even death threat. Very bad. I am still shocked as he will set a bad example to the other monks to do the same on social media.
This is very serious to see such comments. Patricia is either having the intention to threatened or harm, or know someone will be harming Rinpoche. This also showed me that how extreme some anti-shugden people are just to stop others from doing their practice on Dorje Shugden. What have Shugden people done wrong? They are not causing harm or danger to others or society. Most of them like Rinpoche has contribute a lot to bring Dharma to others and benefited a lot of people. Why do they deserve such harmful treatment just because they follow the teaching from their teachers?
Furthermore all the anti-shugden people claim that they are Buddhists and followed His Holiness Dalai Lama’s advice. Buddha teaches all of us to be compassion to all beings. Causing harm via speech or body to others is definitely not Dharma! Besides, they are causing bad reputation to HHDL who won the Nobel Peace Award!
I sincerely pledge that HHDL would engage into conversation and end this ban.
I thank you Datuk May and Kechara BODs for taking all the necessaries steps and legal action to make sure our Guru is safe.
It’s such a disgusting comment from Patricia.
I have not heard Buddha’s teaching to give such comment and threaten people in such a way. Where is compassion value from the comment? What Buddhist value from the public can learn from this life threatening comment? Worse still, the group of people just watch and surprisingly they are people encouraging….what a disgrace.
Under what dharma value you encourage people to disparage a sangha?
When some mention about karma, they have forgotten the definition of it and it use to please their own personal agenda. Karma is universal my dear! You threatened a sangha member here! what will be your karma then? If you a Buddhist practitioners this is not how you show your compassion by threatening my guru’s live. We will not take this lightly! The world is watching!
The ban has causes so much violence to so many people.
May the ban be lifted quickly to stop all these issue and everyone can just follow their lineage practice.
This is just confusing and disturbing. 🙁
Dear Keng Hwa,
I agree with you that this is indeed confusing and disturbing. It does not make sense how people can hate so much and take it to a point where they can threaten the life of Rinpoche just because Rinpoche practises Dorje Shugden. I sadly have to admit that this is life which is why we must always study the Dharma and have it deep in our values so that we do not cultivate such anger and hate inside ourselves like those people who speak with hate. I will speak to you in person to explain. Please do not be upset by all this.
Dear All,
Keng Hwa is my niece who is 18 years old. The action of people on this hate group have serious repercussions. Young people like my niece who are innocent get disturbed. Just imagine how much more damage is done by hate.
It is sad and disheartening to read what some people write because they cannot accept others beliefs and bothers them like its their own. I am perplexed by Patricia Snodgrass et al; I do sincerely hope that in due course of time they will understand and be more accepting. Please refrain from threatening in the future, death threats will not be tolerated.
Dear Mavis，
I understand how you feel and that is why we cannot keep quiet and do nothing. People need to know how how much Dorje Shugden practitioners are being harassed and harm in many ways on a daily basis for the past 18 years or so.
This case with Snodgrass, McQuire and Siling is just the very tiny bit of the tip of the iceberg. I urge you to please read more, investigate and understand what the real situation is like, so you can do something also to prevent more harm being done onto Shugdenpas.
It is easy for one to say that there is no ban, this is not death threat, Kechara is exaggerating etc. but how many of these were said after a full investigation of what the current situation is really like?
We will continue to do all that we can to protect Rinpoche’s safety and we ask you to please join us in creating awareness on the threats that all Shugdenpas are facing and work towards lifting the Dorje Shugden ban once and for all!
With much appreciation,
Pastor Adeline
A threat is a threat and its a bad thing to do or even if u are doing it verbally unintentionally. But from this article and the evidences provided, its a death threat as i read it…the first thing come to my mind is HARM. Why resort to this? The people who posted harmful comments or hate notes should stop and leave DS practitioners alone. If you can do that, both party can save the trouble of defending ourselves for our beliefs. Why commit unnecessary karma? Please be responsible with what you want to say or speak and do not forget you called yourself a buddhist….you do not need to acknowledge DS practitioners a buddhist but start it well from your side first.
For the last twenty years that I have known Rinpoche, all he wanted was for his students to transform. Rinpoche always advise and guide his students accordingly to their needs and requirements. Many students appreciate his advice and guidance and moved on to improve themselves and benefit others while some cowards are too comfortable in their comfort zones as wellas due to their big ego refused to accept the truth and chose to leave even though they received love, care, attention and even material gifts from Rinpoche.
Rinpoche always keep those most difficult near him so that he can guide them yet these people who left are so unappreciative of Rinpoche’s kindness.
Everyone has the right to their own practice. If some do not agree with Dorje Shugden then just move on and do whatever they feel supposedly is good for them. Why create so much schism and hatred? I wonder, would any sensible dharma practitioner speak in vulgarities and have so much hatred? Why waste time condemning and wishing someone dead? What have they to gain except more negative karma.
If they do not like Tsem Rinpoche and Kechara then stop following. Why still come here and make death threats and nasty comments. As students of Rinpoche, we will not take this lightly but will stand by to protect our Guru.
To those haters! The more you disparage my holy and precious Guru, the stronger I get! Check yourself!!
I am really shock to see Patricia Snodgrass is the one hinting death treats on Tsem Rinpoche! Someone who was benefited by Rinpoche, someone who use to praise Rinpoche so much, would turn around and bad mouth Rinpoche yet claim she is a Buddhist? Wow… must be a new definition for Buddhism/Buddhist.
My immediate thought is what did she not get in the end that made her to be this bitter, resentful person… but even so, no sane person with right ethics, who not necessarily need to even be spiritual would be okay in making death threats remarks like what Patricia did. On top of that to a monk, so I wonder is Patricia even a Buddhist at all?
There’s no need to even discuss/debate about whether there is a ban on Dorje Shugden practice and discrimination on the practitioners, for the gossip activity held by Patricia and her group clearly shows the world there is a ban and this is exactly what every single Dorje Shugden practitioner has to go through and endure on a daily basis.
All I see is a bunch of people who are very bitter with their lives, they haven’t succeeded much in anything and because they did not get what they want from their Guru/previous centre, they try to find an avenue to release their self-hate and frustration on to another person. They are not Buddhist, because if they are, they would understand and accept karma, and try to find a better way of healing instead malice intent and seeking revenge.
This is the reason why the ban on Dorje Shugden must be abolished for it gives fuel to those who are bitter to find an excuse to create disharmony, chaos, and even violence. It’s obvious the ban on Dorje Shugden has been more negative than positive and definitely a breach to the constitutional law of religious freedom.
In Malaysia we live in a country with multiple race and religious beliefs and we’ve been living in harmony. How can or how dare anyone from another land, not even Malaysian impose any discrimination on top of that give death threats to someone due to their religion? Even if one chooses to disagree in faith, people are always polite and respectful, that’s what we’re taught not as Buddhist, but as basic humans with morals.
No it is not befitting of a Buddhist to gossip let alone say such nasty, hateful, untruth comments about another human being. It is in fact quite the opposite and quite degrading for Buddhist to talk this way.
Patricia please watch what you say because if you know anything about being a Buddhist, you’ll know about karma and that the vows you’ve broken (3 of the mind and 4 of the speech) PLUS encouraged others to break along together with you… so the karma is multiplied. Amazing! I do hope you will stop your wrong body, speech and mind. I hope you choose to be a peacemaker instead of a trouble maker and make peace within somehow, cos lashing out this way is not going to make you any happier. Death threats on Lamas no matter what your views are does not collect merits and will definitely not be taken lightly by law.
Siling Tongkhor, the person who started the Facebook thread, I believe is a monk himself. Then he should know better what is right and what is wrong. He can disagree with the practice of Shugden no problem, but to allow people to get ugly and nasty on the comments section and not correcting them, is not proper conduct as a monk. It is indirectly encouraging anger, hatred and maliciousness.
If Kechara people care and people who have benefitted from Tsem Rinpoche cares, you should write letters to the abbot of his monastery if he is a monk and living there. You should not let him get away with it.
Thank you Anonymous, that’s actually a good suggestion 🙂
Thanks for the suggestion, I have just lodged a complaint to Sera Mey Monastery with its 18 email addresses about Siling Tongkhor’s action, hopefully they will do something to stop him from further hurting others and encouraging negative speech and actions.
I don’t know if this report was made by you Tenzin Namgyal. Looks like Siling isn’t affected and still acting funny on the social media. Such a shame for Sera Mey monastery. If I am part of Sera Mey or the sponsor of Sera Mey, I would definitely want this Tulku to stop act funny. Even though his stance is aligned with HH Dalai Lama’s, regard the shugden issue, but the way he acts, brings great shame. He holds no vows obviously. When he sees somebody is creating hate speech and malicious speech, instead of stopping the people, which he should as a monk, some more a Tulku, he joined them to bad mouth. Shame on you Siling Tongkor. And it is clear this Siling Tongkor have connection with 2(maybe more) of the ex-students of Tsem Rinpoche, therefore this kind of attack was made. Sigh. Is this how a sangha should act and is it OK to allow sangha to act like this?
Now I see shugden practice is not going to bring down Buddhism but sangha like Siling Tongkor is. I wish HH would speak up and stop all these attacks no matter someone prays to shugden or not.
This Siling Tongkhor is a silly fella. If he thinks that his information from these “ex-students” from Kechara give him the “facts” to make his insinuations and silly remarks then he is in for a big surprise! Look what happened to Patricia Snodgrass? She’s gone silent. I am sure she knew some ex-students too when she did paid writing for Kechara. There are reasons people become EX you know… ex-ile, ex-communicated, ex-it… Ex-rated for that matter. Siling is friends with Wong Kok Chung aka Joey… this one is ex-rated. I would strongly advise Siling not to buy in too much with “information” from Wong.
I agree with Li Kim very much. Ex-students like Wong Kok Chung/Joey Wong, we know him, I know him. Tsem Rinpoche had been so kind/caring to him, talked to him, gave him advise, and extremely patience to him…whenever Joey needs help, need guidance in works and life, Rinpoche is always there for him.
There was once Rinpoche bought us movie and dinner and Joey was one of us and sitting next to me. On that day, Rinpoche gave much attention to Joey, talked to him and joked with him…maybe you would think all these are nothing, but if you know Rinpoche, you know Rinpoche cares, Rinpoche cares very much for his students and this is how Rinpoche will give his care to the students whenever they need advise, guidance, or sometimes just some little jokes to cheer them up.
Now we see Joey “gang-up” with those who hate Dorje Shugden le Siling Tongkhor to harm Tsem Rinpoche online, how sad. Tsem Rinpoche NEVER harm him in any way and he treats his ex-Guru as such!
This is just another proof of how ungrateful the ex-students are and how malicious they are when they choose to forget and deny all the kindness out of their anger and selfish agenda. 🙁
As for Siling Tongkhor, if he thinks the “info” Joey or any of the ex-students gave or is giving is “reliable”, think twice. They can turn against the Guru that was kind to them, you don’t know when they would turn against you. And as a monk or a Tulku, you should advise them to stop harming the Vajra Guru, not encouraging them to harm their ex-Guru no matter who their Guru is, cuz KINDNESS IS KINDNESS, whether they want to agree or not, they DID received kindness from Tsem Rinpoche. THE END!
That’s true! This so-called monk Silling started the whole thing and even cajoled people on implying Tsem Tulku is Chinese. Said with intention to encourage harm. I searched around and could not find what exactly this monk has done other than create problems. If anything happens to Rinpoche he must be taken in for questioning and whatever the outcome, his monastery’s name would already be sullied. Not very monkly.
Not all Tibetan monk behave this way. Siling is monk, but look like he enjoy schism very much. He make people fight each other and tell good people to quiet so fight can continue. Monk should teach student not to fight, and be peaceful. Siling don’t teach real Dharma, he teach worldly Dharma. Very sad to see this. Sera Monastery produce monk like Siling… I hope not all Sera monks bcome like him.
Dear Tashi,
I do believe not all Tibetan monks act this way, I have seen so many of great Tibetan monks and great Lamas with my own eyes! They are full of compassion and wisdom and they always create harmony with their body, speech and mind.
But sadly I don’t see all these qualities in Siling Tongkhor for his “Tulku-ness”. As far as I can see on “We Need to Talk About Shugden” group wall posts, he is always creating hatred towards Dorje Shugden practice and the practitioners. As a Buddhist, no matter the person is a bad person or even the being is not kind, as a Buddhist we should treat them with compassion and forgiveness not with hatred. But Siling Tongkhor chooses to be act the opposite and he defnitely doesn’t represent His Holiness correctly!
I urge Sera Mey Monastery to really take action to stop things that will bring bad reputation to Buddhism. Shugden practice is not but violating the freedom of religion and what Siling Tongkhor has done are hurting Buddhism.
OMB!! I cannot believe what I read in here. I condemn all kind of threats to human lives and all beings. This lady Patricia Snodgrass is threatening my Guru’s lives. She has implied in her threat that she knows something that My guru may not even see the end of this year. If this threat is realized – her post clearly indicate that she knows something about the plan. However instead of reporting to proper authorities because someone’s life is at stake she actually rejoice in it. We at Kechara will not stand still and be quiet until something happen to our guru. We will do something to protect his life, not only because he is precious to us but because every live matters and that is Buddhist teaching. Some detractors may say later that if take legal actions, it will bring bad PR for us. There is no such thing as bad PR when someone’s lives is at stake. Everyone should be held accountable for their actions in accordance to the law of that respective jurisdiction. And guess what, online threat like this involve many jurisdictions.
I agree. Her post indicates clearly she knows something about a threat to Rinpoche. She should go to the police and report what she knows NOT BRAG ON FACEBOOK how Rinpoche will be killed and not see the end of this year. This is a crime.
Dear Rabgye,
You have a good point. If Patricia Snodgrass is honest and sincere about her concern for Tsem Rinpoche and Kechara then she should have reported the threats she is aware of. This just shows who she is and how she is now trying to cover up her threats by making claims of concern and that she means no harm. Interesting how a person can play such mind games thinking that others are fools to fall for it. I would ask her to recite Dorje Shugden’s mantra to calm her mind, as I do to calm mine. But, I dare not as she hates Dorje Shugden and practitioners. I would not want any retaliation and further threats. 🙁
This is a shocking post and I wonder what will people get if they hurt Dorje Shugden practitioners? For those who openly put Tsem Rinpoche and Kechara in bad light on social media, may I know what do you get by saying hurtful things? Do you feel happier and better? Are you one step closer to enlightenment?
I think it’s a PERSONAL choice for spiritual practice and if anyone found this practice is not suitable, it doesn’t mean that the practice is wrong.
Did His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama says those who practice Dorje Shugden should be harmed? Those who put Tsem Rinpoche and Kechara in bad light on one hand and praise the Dalai Lama on the other hand, it reflects that how selective you are. The Dalai Lama did say those who practises Dorje Shugden do not attend to his teaching; the Dalai Lama also says practice compassion and kindness.
In the end, Dorje Shugden or not, we are all practicing Dharma to reach the same goal, what qualified you to be a ‘spiritual police’ to judge who is good and who is bad?
If you don’t like Tsem Rinpoche and Kechara, it doesn’t mean that they are bad, it’s your personal choice, and you should choose to be peace with yourself by stop coming here please.
Dear Jace,
We respect everyone’s religious choice. We do not stop them, definitely will not go onto their social media page to talk bad about their beliefs. People who did that need to proof that they are right, they thought they will be happy by doing so. In actual fact, these kind of actions further deepen their dissatisfaction and made them even more unhappy.
Being unhappy cause them to slander, disparage and hurt others without considering the consequences and the impact of their actions. We are all adults, we know we have to be responsible for our own actions; good actions resembles good results and vice versa. This is very important to understand.
As we cannot stop people from doing those actions shown in the above post, but we can create awareness with the intention to protect Rinpoche and Kechara and take necessary actions to prevent further harm done.
Thank you for your comment and please share more if you can.
With appreciation,
Pastor Adeline
I know you will delete this but I hope you will take the time to read it in the spirit it is written before you do so. What I wrote about Rinpoche was NEVER intended as being threatening to him or to Kechara. Yes, I felt truly deceived and hurt by Kechara but I NEVER intended harm to ANYONE. Those of you who know me know that is NOT my way. My writing was instead intended for CONCERN for Rinpoche because as you know internet rumors are making horrible threats against his person. We are no longer friends but I still hold some affection toward kechara.I just didn’t want to see anyone hurt. My ONLY desire now is to be left alone. Please make this happen. Thank you.
Whatever you have written in the “We Need to talk about Shugden” group with regards to Rinpoche’s life, it is evident that you want him dead. Your intentions are clear and whatever you say now wont hide that fact inside you. You talk so much about what is right to do but you are doing the opposite.
Snodgrass,
Don’t try to twist things around here and there. Everything you wrote and are writing is all recorded. Whether you are an old woman or young, makes no difference in the eyes of the law WHEN YOU THREATEN SOMEONE’S LIFE. It makes no difference if your husband is sick and ailing as you are writing with the other groups which is visible to the world, a crime is a crime. Don’t try to write one thing elsewhere (WNTTAS) and something else here. You are not concerned for Tsem Rinpoche or Kechara and there is plenty of recorded evidence stored for future use to prove this. Kechara practicing Shugden IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS-KEEP QUIET AND STOP LETTING YOUR HATE/THREAT SPEECH GET YOU IN TROUBLE-KEEP QUIET. You want Rinpoche dead and that is your intention, very clear.
Crime speech and freedom of speech is completely different. Everyone has the freedom of speech to threaten someone to die, but that is when it enters the domain of cyber crime. When you exercise your freedom of speech to threaten someone’s life, you are in trouble. That is not freedom of speech but threatening a life with pre-meditated intent to harm.
Whatever you have written is recorded (date/time/year) and SHOULD BE REPORTED TO THE POLICE AND LAWYERS. How dare you threaten people on the internet no matter what their beliefs are. How dare you write on the other thread that it would be bad PR for Kechara to pursue this legally against you. Would it be good PR if something happened to Rinpoche FROM NOW ON AFTER YOUR THREAT?
If something happens to Rinpoche, you are under the radar along with your WNTTAS group who participated. You started this. It will not end well. If anything happens to Rinpoche, you are going to be pursued by the full extent of international law with all the resources backing it up I am sure. But be sure that even before this happens, everything you say and do will be recorded and reported as advised.
Thank you Anonymous for your comment. I agree with you that it is evident that Patricia Snodgrass threatened Rinpoche’s life. Otherwise, why would WNTTAS remove the thread with the entire conversation down? Additionally, Patricia Snodgrass is also no longer in their member listing…plus she “privatized” her personal blog.
Action does speak louder than words.
Also, this is the 21st century and our forefathers have fought with tear, sweat and, for some, with their lives to give us the freedom to fundamental human rights like religion, education and expression. Therefore, Patricia and WNTTAS do not have the authority to instigate, fuel, encourage and conspire the endangerment of Tsem Rinpoche’s wellbeing and life.
Nevertheless, Rinpoche’s blog is established to spread the Dharma and have always promoted harmony, respect and the middle path in our communication on this platform. Therefore, I request for you to also exercise this spirit of expression so that your words and thoughts will benefit more who are following this blog.
Thank you again for following this blog and I hope that Rinpoche’s teachings will benefit you and millions more!!!
No, even though I just started to follow the Shugden issue recently and don’t know heads and tails, in this incident I can still see that you are not concerned for Rinpoche, please don’t twist and lie further. If you forgot what you have written, please refer to the above post again, it is extremely clear in the series of comments that you are malicious, bitter and wished something bad happening to Tsem Rinpoche so that you can feel good about it and have your revenge.
Stop twisting and lying further to cover your wrongdoings, it does not help, I would strongly suggest you make a public apology, that’s the very least that you can do.
But whatever you have said before will be recorded for sure. Pray that nothing happens to Rinpoche or you will be implicated for sure. Nobody threatens you, nobody forced you to write those comments, you are the perpetrator throughout the whole incident.
Allan Johnson
Nothing needs to happen to Rinpoche for Snodgrass and her group rejoicing in the death threats for people to take legal and lawful action prior. No one needs to wait that long.
Snodgrass may not have money as she loudly proclaims repeatedly to get sympathy and therefore money, but you don’t have to be rich or young to be prosecuted to the full extent of US Law. Rinpoche is a US citizen as far I remember.
You know Patricia, you always claim to be a poor me older woman who has a husband who is dying of congestive heart failure. Why don’t you just stay home and take care of your husband and do meditation and practices to dedicate the merits for your husband. Why attack Tsem Rinpoche? You are such a fake. I have heard you have been soliciting for donations and money from his students. Now you are using the same poor me story to get yourself out of what you yourself said.
This whole group (We need to talk about shugden fb page) where Snodgrass participates in should be shut down. They do not speak of anything kind, helpful or spiritual. All the posts is character assassination, slander, vicious, malicious and now threatening MURDER.
The moderator of this page if I am not mistaken is Carol McQuire and should be held accountable along with the ‘monk’ Siling and a few others. What kind of Buddhist monk engages in this? I am disgusted. They reflect the anti-Shugden groups well which is hatred and murder. Their page is pure hate. It should be shut down.
You are a bitter old woman who spews hatred. No one visits your blog and fb page because they can see through your nastiness. Your so called guru is famous for posting himself on dating sites looking for women. Don’t bring him up anymore, it’s disgusting like you.
Patricia to me sounds like she rejoices that Rinpoche would get killed. IT doesn’t sound like she didn’t mean it. I think she means it. Its funny that she would want to retract her statements now.
Patricia, there’s a quote that goes like this “words cut deeper than knife”. Shouldn’t you watch out for your words at first? Besides, having learnt a great deal of Buddhism, we should be very careful with speech especially malice, hurtful and divisive. Although I do hope you will find peace eventually, but you have to understand that as students or someone who have benefitted from Rinpoche, we have our right to protect a Lama/Guru being harmed in anyway.
You are same like other people who hate Dorjee Shugden. Always make threat. Always say die. Always spit and swear and talk bad behind. But in front pretend to pray and respect to Gyalwa Rimpoche and tell to people there is no ban. This is not logic and easy to see it is lie.
If you so CONCERN for Rimpoche why you do not inform to Rimpoche or Rimpoche assistant? I see your comment on facebook, it sound like you are angry and also happy when you say Rimpoche going to die.
Now you say leave you alone but why you don’t leave Rimpoche alone and writing many bad words on facebook for long time. I can see what you do. If you don’t like Dorjee Shugden then don’t pray. You have freedom to pray to other protecter. Why you must say so many negative thing about Doreje Shugden ?
Tsem Rimpoche is great Dorjee Shugden lama. Very brave. Follow the lineage and teaching and his lama. And many peoples in Tibet and all around world have much respect to him. We pray Rimpoche to have long life and continue all activity.
Patricia Snodgrass, you are disgusting and you should be reported to the police.
Hey Snots, You are not apologetic nor regretful but justifying. Not everyone is stupid. You have threatened someone or know of a plot to hurt someone. That is a crime.
Dear Disgusting
Although I share your sentiment and frustration about the injustice being done towards Tsem Rinpoche, I request that your expressions be toned down. For our words to have substance and cause haters like Patricia and those on WNTTAS to be mindful of their words, we must practice our freedom of speech respectfully as well.
Thank you!!
We understand the concern, disappointment and outrage that many may feel after reading about the threats against H.E. Tsem Rinpoche’s life. And we welcome your expressions of support and care in the comments on this post. However, we urge you to be respectful in your speech and words. Kindly express yourselves in a manner not to be taken personally by any parties.
Let us all respect Rinpoche’s blog space and watch our speech.
Thank you
Admin
Agreed admin. We don’t need to stoop to the level of these hate campaigners.
Dear Patricia,
I visited the Facebook page mentioned, where the remarks were made. I can’t say that it was a very pleasant read and I actually wonder why do people spend so much of time talking about the things that they claim to dislike instead of moving on to start afresh. Why spend boundless effort and energy to destroy another person or group? You see, the members of the page are out to prevent the growth of NKT and practitioners of Dorje Shugden. They will only be happy if there are no more NKT and Dorje Shugden on the face of this earth. They want all events to cease because that’s the whole idea of trying to prove that NKT is a cult, Dorje Shugden is a demon, Geshe Kelsang Gyatso is basically a dictator. Why? It is to create the results that people will walk away, leave NKT and give up on Dorje Shugden. Surely, everyone would say that he or she is merely exercising her freedom of speech and sharing her story so that others will be aware.Because they have been hurt they don’t wish for others to be hurt. Such euphemism because these actions tantamount to nothing but they bring pain and confusion to others, something this Facebook group claims is preventing but obviously producing.
So please mind your actions, thoughts and speech because they may very well cause sufferings to others.
Thank you.
I don’t think merely saying sorry removes the threat. I and many people believe that there is a real threat against Rinpoche’s life and Patricia has knowledge about it. Saying sorry doesn’t do anything and Patricia will just quietly continue to plot to harm Rinpoche. I think you ment every word about what you said as you repeatedly assualted Rinpoche with your words and over days.
I read all the conversations on Siling Thongkor’s thread. Its clear that Patricia made malicious threats but it is also clear that she got suckered by Carol into saying all those foolish words. Maybe you meant harm and maybe not but for sure Carol’s group have no good intentions towards anyone who prays to Dolgyal and Patricia availed herself as an easy pawn to be used to do the dirty work and make the criminal threats. Carol herself is careful in what she says although it’s her and Thongkor who started the trouble purposefully. I think Patricia’s biggest mistake was to be dumb enough to be enrolled easily into committing a crime.
Hey Patricia and the whole WNTTAS hate FB page:
First Patricia posts clearly that Tsem Rinpoche will be dead by the end of the year.
Then WNNTTAS group says, what you all mean is karma will catch up. It’s not intended as a threat.
Then now you say it was meant to be for Tsem Rinpoche to be dead but it’s an ‘Asian’ thing. How racist you all are.
And it does not involve all of you. Guess what it was on your thread for three day and all of you were commenting and slandering happily. You are involved if SOMETHING HAPPENS TO TSEM RINPOCHE.
Siling Tongkor the ‘monk’ from Sera Mey who does nothing and only spews hate who is on communication with a male ex Kecharians who was caught with self made pornography and asked to stop or leave. He chose to leave but angry. So it’s his revenge ganging up with Siling. Guess what. No effect, but if this ex Kecharians diry secret gets out, it will be very serious and legalities involved.
Carol McQuire who uses others for her dirty works. And a Chinese New Zealand drag queen living in Shinju ku area in Japan talking with female ex kecharians to spew hatred. keep it up. The more you write and post, the more evidence. Keep writing. Build it up.
You are a hate group with hatred and malicious intent. Many are watching what you do and what you say. Keep writing. Keep posting. Things will catch up. No one is attacking you, but you are publicly attacking. Let the evidence further build up.
Can see clearly which Ex Kecharian is ‘good friends’ with Siling Tongkor the ‘monk’ or Tulku. Yes Siling is suppose to be a Tulku. Amazing.
Well let Siling get this Ex-kecharian in more and more trouble.
OH! Now this makes sense! This is why so much hate towards Tsem Tulku and information leaked to Siling Tongkor… “interesting” Ex-Kecharians.
You know what, I’ve heard about this ex-Kecharian. When he was in Kechara, Tsem Tulku actually took care of him very much and he was like a big “kid” that needs a lot a lot of attention. I don’t think he is that “young” already, at least not under 18 or 21 anymore. He is definitely an adult back then and now but, he has never change…sad case.
Well hide behind the scene and gang up with people on We Need To Talk About Shugden and attack Tsem Tulku and Kechara when things are not in accordance with his wishes are what normally a “kid” would do, throwing tantrums to papa and mama. I just hope he will stop all this nonsense and stop hiding and pretending himself to be victim and throwing tantrums again again.
Those who gang up with him, be careful of his tantrum. You can never expect good thing from this person.
You all agreed with Patricia’s post that you wanted Tsem Rinpoche DEAD and even gave a timeline for that. This is recorded. You wanted him dead and you have been disparaging him for months now. All you all do is to disparage Tsem Rinpoche. You don’t feel ashamed to attack a person daily. What does that say about you?
You should have kept quiet and left Kechara and Tsem Rinpoche alone. What they do is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. NONE OF YOUR CONCERN. Nothing to do with you at all.
“We Need To Talk About Shugden” hate group on FB managed by Carol McQuire and Siling Tongkor Tulku of Sera Mey with their cronies wanted Tsem Rinpoche dead. It is on their posts.
Dear Tsem and Kechara,
I cannot express how disturbed I am to read this post which I shared with my husband. A few years ago my husband went through something similar but fortunately he was able to enlist the assistance of friends who managed to trace the death threats he and his business partners were receiving. They traced it back to ex-employees of the company who had been encouraging Tom’s enemies (in business sometimes you come across people who want to see you harmed) and pressed the authorities to investigate. From there I realised that its not only people who make direct death threats that are to be made responsible but also everyone who incited the violence. I am sorry I took so many days to give this information and my husband said best don’t get involved. But I think in the end my conscience tell me that I cannot refuse to help even though I am worried for my own safety.
For sometime now I have heard of some ex-students of Tsem who have been saying nasty things about Tsem. But its more than just passing comments and there are even websites that are created by a young lady by the name of Jxxxxx Khoo or something like that. This person definitely wish to make people mad so that they will want to inflict injury on Tsem or worst. Khoo was being aided by other ex members of Kechara and one was a young man called Wong Kxx xxxxx and a few other names which I will check and send to you by private email. It is wicked and shocking when young people use their time to plot harm and to try and get others to do the dirty job but young people today are not very ethical any more. This story was told to me by some overseas friends who didn’t know I have been following Tsem. I think it is very serious when they say lies to get other people to hurt Tsem. Actually they are also to be held responsible if Tsem is killed or harmed. I think it is clear that they are also part of the gang that made the death threat. When I think about it I cannot understand why this Patricia and her gang would want to cause injury to Tsem. I don’t think they even know Tsem and then I realise that maybe they are being provoked.
So I advice you to please check and try and trace. If you get the cops to catch this Patricia and the others maybe she will confess who are in her gang. I hope you don’t mind me saying this and frankly I cannot be certain but for sure, the things I heard are very bad and can inflame a lot of people to take action to hurt Tsem. If your supporters can afford it, please hire professional people to trace. The things these people say are very scary and horrible and can drive others to criminal activity.
I hope no harm befall you and I will keep praying for you to be safe. Trust Buddha.
Choo,
If you have any information about Khoo or Wong plotting with the sorry souls at the hate group to take out Rinpoche, you have a duty to report to the police. At least this is the law in the Singapore and the UK. Rinpoche’s minders ought to look into this lead. I would keep a very close watch on them from now on. Sorry state of affairs I must say.
Dear Ms. Choo,
It is most interesting what you have said. If you have further information please contact me as I will be able to assess the information for further action. I am on the Board of Directors in Kechara and have authority to ascertain such information. Please direct to my email likim.phng@kechara.com Thank you.
Hey Snodgrass,
You took money and many gifts from Kechara. If you had any honor, pack it up and send it back undamaged. You can call them the ‘Thing’ worshippers degrading their faith, but you can still take money and freebies from them. WoMAN up and return it all. How dare you call Dorje Shugden a THING. This is none of your business!
You better stay away from talking about Kechara, Kecharians and their teacher from now as it’s NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS WHAT THEY DO OR WHAT THEY WORSHIP. Keep quiet and keep your your fingers off your keyboard about them and your mouth shut. No one hurt you. You just go on and on about all types of derogatory statements.
That goes for the rest of the WNTTAS group who have no business talking about others.
Snodgrass, your picture says it all.
This incident exposed the reality of the so-called “spiritual” world. Many people thought for example Tibet is a Shangri-la, where everyone is true practitioners where once they enter they will leave behind anger, greed, hatred, but this is not the case.
This threat is not new, since Tsem Rinpoche became a Dharma teacher 20+ years ago, he has been receiving physical threats, verbal abuse…just for teaching Dharma. Sometime in the 90s, a group of “students” were manipulating to use Rinpoche to make money for themselves, because Rinpoche’s divination is highly accurate and highly sought after by the public. However, Rinpoche refused to comply because Rinpoche stuck with his Dharma principle and would not sell the Dharma. The “students” got angry and threatened Rinpoche with physical violence.
This is just one of the many incidences.
More importantly, Tsem Rinoche has to absorb all these abuses and still keep to his principles. The ways Rinpoche deals with all these threats and abuses are like how Shakuyamuni Buddha dealt with all his enemies, always compassionate, with lots of patience, never retaliate with ill-intentioned actions, and never rejoice about their negativities. These testing situations accentuate a practitioner’s quality, and Rinpoche shows exactly the Dharmic ways to deal with our “enemies”.
Although these are no rejoicing matters, these are precious teachings that Rinpoche shows us in real life that cannot be demonstrated on the throne, although the same teaching exists inside thousands of Buddhism books.
No one should criticised or even threaten somebody if he doesn’t agree with one’s person practices (religion) . We should respect everyone for thier own belief, in dharma we have always practice compassion . If threats or abusive words are thrown around , it’s reflects very badly on a person’s spiritual level . I am a Dorje shugden practioner… We are nvr taught to give threats and always treat people with compassion. I hope all faults and misunderstanding could be clear soon…
Regardless of our faith, as buddhists, we should practice the essential points of the Dharma. Kindness, compassion and moral ethics is common in all Buddhist teachings. We should adhere to them and create harmony. If we’re to follow the methods of these people, it would bring the name of Buddhism down. Why would we want to destroy the peace of Buddhism in this way?
Wow these people need to calm down and get themselves something better to do. Clearly they should invest time in their personal development rather than hating on a successful and brilliant monk of the Gelugpa lineage. They are demonstrating very very very poor reflections of themselves and their ”dharma practice”. I really wish HHDL would stop this unfair discrimination that was imposed on members of the Buddhist world. Dharma practitioners are meant to show compassion to everyone. Give them your mercy , Your Holiness Dalai Lama.
Dear Sandra,
Whether dorje shugden or not, the subject is that we are all still Buddhists. I could not agree more with you that these people on this hate group called We Need to Talk About Shugden are reflecting poorly on their “dharma practice”. Then again, if you study what they say in their hate group, you will see very little, close to none, dharma. But I must say that there are maybe one or two people in that group who have sense and speak logically but unfortunately they fall on deaf ears. Ears do not hear when focused only on hate speech.
Hey guys…I m perturbed by what I read. Who is this Patricia Snodgrass? I seem to have seen her postings on this blog praising your Guru and the teachings and thanking your Guru for his kindness. She also asks for prayers posts her umpteen hours of retreat etc. For one who received so much kindness and yet can turn around to threaten your Guru because of something he practise show how unstable she is. The world must be warned of people like her. If your Guru is harmed people like her should be reported to international authorities to take action. In fact the authorities should be made aware now! Before something bad happens to your Guru. My prayers to your Gfu and all at Kechara to be unharmed.
Thank you Jason for your concern and prayers. Yes, individuals like Patricia Snodgrass are disturbing. She and the group which she is mouthing off with are ill-informed and most of all self-cherishing. They have no respect nor human decency. The authorities will be informed accordingly.
Your Guru is a very special being and has many followers worldwide. He is very much liked by many who appreciates the pure dharma he teaches. I watched many of his youtube teachings. They are full of vibrancy. He jokes and cajole but never offensive or nasty. I like his style. He is also very respective full to all his teachers including HH Dalai Lama. He is very fortunate to have a core group of dedicated students looking after him. That is very important because of the dharma treasures he imparts. May he live long and continue to turn the dharma wheel for all to benefit.
Hi Jason,
Glad that you are aware of such incidences. Kindness is a consistency which HE Tsem Rinpoche has shown us throughout the years. Where ever Rinpoche goes, it is only Dharma which will touch those who come in contact with Rinpoche.
Though not a new phenomenon, there are people who hide behind their screens and keyboards to do potential harm on Rinpoche’s works. U can gain insight to what Martin has written here about these people: https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/students-friends/why-hide-and-attack-a-monk.html
I once met an erudite buddhist master in Sri Lanka. He said the only way people can bring down a man of cloth is spread lies concerning sex and money. I have read much to make up my mind. What I read about or from your Guru is just pure good stuff consistent with that of a Buddhist practitioner. Take good care of your Guru. My prayers for his good health and long life.
Dear Jason,
What you have said about Tsem Rinpoche I fully agree and have seen for myself. With dedicated students and friends, like yourself, it gives hope that the world is not merely filled with haters. Again, thank you for your prayers and kind words.
I have had many correspondences with Patricia before and I must say that I am shocked that she could have followed Rinpoche’s teachings, claimed to have been benefitted by it and then turns around and make a death wish and so all other nasty things. Just because Rinpoche practice Dorje Shugden? Come on? How Buddhist can you be when you wish harm would fall upon someone?
This is utterly disgusting and a prime example of why the ban must come down. This is also another evidence that the ban is real and that the ban instigates violence upon great and beneficial teachers like Rinpoche is just incredible. It is not really the ban that demands violence but many nasty people under the guise of practitioners would twist the objective of the ban in order to wish and incite violence.
As a student of Tsem Rinpoche, I am in shock and I would not want to see Rinpoche hurt in anyway by such people. I think such statements should not be taken lightly and that efforts to be keep Rinpoche’s safety always and that such people, may they realize their mistaken and truly start to practice the Dharma.
Dear Pastor David,
I could not agree more that the Ban must indeed come down NOW. It is this Ban that permits fanatics like these Haters to actually feel justified to behave the way they do. Imagine those who do actually act out this violence. Actually there is no need to imagine, it has happened. Monks have been physically attacked because they practise Dorje Shugden. The government CTA must act on this. Will the Dalai Lama approve of this?
There is so much hatred especially from so called Buddhist practitioners who supposedly follow HH the Dalai Lama. I don’t believe the Dalai Lama will approve of this behavior. The amount of negative spews and death threats from these haters reflect very badly on the Dalai Lama. How are they practicing compassion and kindness?
Did the Dalai Lama teach them to be nasty and vicious with their words to convince Dorje Shugden practitioners to stop doing the practice? Did the Dalai Lama teach them to have forums inciting others to be ugly and nasty about Dorje Shugden practitioners?
The behavior is so wrong on so many levels. Forget about religion. But as decent human beings, who uses such violent, abusive words and death threats on others because of their religious belief?
When someone crosses the line with death threats, we must protect our guru and not take it lightly. No one is above the law regardless of how you justify it.
David, I DID NOT under any circumstances threaten the life of Rinpoche or anyone else. You all know that is not my way. I expressed concern over something I read over the internet a few months ago and that is all. The people I was talking to on line assured me that that incident could not occur so I dropped it. The hysteria brought up over this is dumbfounding to me. I adored rinpoche and still do. I would NEVER harm him. Earlier this morning I posted an apology and I see it is now gone. I don’t understand all this vitriol, but i do promise I will NEVER do it again.
What confuses me most is…why didn’t someone email me or skype me and simply ask? Come on, guys, you know I’m not an ogre.
Snodgrass,
You are caught red handed. You have threatened Rinpoche’s life and you also insisted people are ‘affronted’ by Rinpoche’s practice of Shugden meaning he will be physically hurt. It is in black and white. You are directly guilty or part of it for sure. You wanted to join the Carol group and now she has used you to get you in trouble, while she sits by and watches you roast. But then you are not innocent. You want Rinpoche hurt and dead. You better confess, write a genuine apology letter. Your current pathetic mind game apology blames others and shrugs off innocence. Your big mouth and hatred is going to do you in. I recommend Kechara to take full legal action on you to teach you and other haters to stop spewing hate. Let the law decide.
Snodgrass,
Why should anyone in Kechara contact you or even give you the time of day. All the nasty things you have said and repeated about their teacher and organization and you want them to contact you. Forget it. You THREATENED someone’s life!! This is a crime and instigation. Read Facebook’s rules! In this case, they should not contact you but it’s lawyer to lawyer now. You want to claim poverty, then you should have thought deeper before all your bravado. I am not Rinpoche student, but his teachings benefitted me and thousands more. And I am disgusted with your behavior, threats, vulgar attitude.
Dear Disgusting,
I appreciate that you support freedom of religion and believe that the law will protect users and Tsem Rinpoche in this specific case from cyber bullying.
However, Rinpoche’s blog has been consistently used to promote the Dharma and provide accurate information about the Dharma to all our friends and followers all over the world.
Therefore, I humbly request you to be respectful in tone when expressing your thoughts. Additionally, when making strong statements about other individuals like Patricia Snodgrass and Carol McGuire, we must do not do so based on assumptions alone. This is to protect the vision of this blog as well as newer readers who come here.
I thank you in advance for taking time to read this message!
Patricia Snodgrass, you obviously threat Rinpoche but now you turn and say different. You threaten Rinpoche, why should they contact you? I read your talk on the group, u very happy people support your negative talk, that is not concern or respect for Rinpoche which u now say u have.
Letter say very clear, u want end this then u contact Kechara. U comment on Rinpoche website, is not correct. If people start fight, then the one start the problem should apologize.
Be good Dharma practitioner and make good apology to lama, bcos u threaten lama and u make bad comment on lama’s practice. If u dont want practice Dorje Shugden, then no one force. You dont need say bad things.
Rinpoche is important lama, and have many people support. U dont apologize honestly, maybe u will get real letter bcos Rinpoche life important. Better you think clearly.
Snodgras, You better apologize sincerely and sign the apology and never speak about Kechara or their Rinpoche ever again and sign it. You better stop your poor me stories because it is not working. You made the trouble and only you can solve it.
I absolutely agree with you. There is no law in free countries AGAINST the practice of any faith you believe in. But there are laws against cyber threats of DEATH. How dare Snodgrass threaten a Buddhist monk who has lived a life of peace! Snodgrass says she is concerned about Rinpoche’s life and is warning him out of care? That is just a pure lie. You want to warn Rinpoche, you send him or his students an email NOT ON A DORJE SHUGDEN HATE GROUP with a disrobed monk liked Siling Tongkor and a frustrated spinster ex-nun whose claim to fame is hatred. Gross. Siling gets money from this ex nun. The ex nun gets money from CTA. She doesn’t work or do anything but spends all day on the internet. She works for CTA because they contract people to spread their propaganda. What does Carol have against Shugden? Nothing. But she is a bitter old greying woman who wants revenge against NKT and CTA wants to shut down DS people. So what a ‘great’ marriage. CTA and Carol. But you know what? Let her rant and rave because VERY LITTLE PEOPLE PARTICIPATE OR ACTIVELY PARTICPATE ON HER PAGE.
Her page is not genuine because she only lets hateful people against Shugden get involved in their page. That is obvious. She does not want dialogue but only hatred and inciting hatred and murder. Now stupid Snodgrass fell for it and she will be the scapegoat. The judge should throw the book at Snodgrass and should be prosecuted for her threats.
It is none of Snodgrass’ business to interfere in what god Kechara chooses to worship. It’s nobody’s business. They don’t post on your pages. So don’t go on their pages if you don’t like. Social media is not just for subject matters YOU LIKE.
Kechara does not protest or defame Dalai Lama. If they did, prove it. Where? Kechara quietly practices their god and in their premises. You don’t like what they post on internet, then just block them BUT NOT THREATEN THEM.
Go ahead Snodgrass, post more threats and insinuations. Go ahead and keep typing. You didn’t keep quiet and just practice dharma. You are not interested in the Shugden issue. You ingratiated yourself into the hate Shugden groups so you can get friendly and get money/financial freebies. yOU JUST WANT MONEY AND FREEBIES. Everyone knows your motive. You got a lot from kechara as we read FROM THE POSTS and you got paid for work. Paid!!! You are not ashamed? Greedy. Now that you know Kechara is praying to that THING as you like to put it, return the money and be clean!!
Why take money from a group that prays to a Thing!You like the money?? You will regret every word and nastiness you posted. Remember something, don’t threaten people with the resources to get the law against you all the way!
Carol and group will NEVER SUPPORT YOU OR ANYONE financially. You pay for your big mouth. You used them and she used you. Let’s see what happens. Everyday of silence can mean something is happening and it will blow up and you will deal with the law. Cyber threats of murder is illegal! tick, tock, tick, tock….
THE FULL EXTENT OF THE LAW SHOULD BE CARRIED OUT AGAINST SNODGRASS.
Dear Tongkor,
I maintain what I have said to you in your other comments.
Your allegations cannot be baseless. Please be cautious not to escalate sentiments. We do not condone nor permit hate speech. We will not have you make this blog into something like the other hate groups. Please be mindful at all times – Buddhist or not.
I just thought I wanted to share with you what people think of you. I am not sure if they think you are ogress but they sure don’t think sweet little old ladies would say such nasty things as what you had been saying. Haven’t seen you around so I guess, you must have gone into hiding and by any chance you are still trolling online, just thought I let you see what people have been saying about your statements online…
Hey Snodgrass,
You took money and many gifts from Kechara. If you had any honor, pack it up and send it back undamaged. You can call them the ‘Thing’ worshippers degrading their faith, but you can still take money and freebies from them. WoMAN up and return it all. How dare you call Dorje Shugden a THING. This is none of your business!
You better stay away from talking about Kechara, Kecharians and their teacher from now as it’s NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS WHAT THEY DO OR WHAT THEY WORSHIP. Keep quiet and keep your your fingers off your keyboard about them and your mouth shut. No one hurt you. You just go on and on about all types of derogatory statements.
That goes for the rest of the WNTTAS group who have no business talking about others.
Snodgrass, your picture says it all.
I sent Patricia Snodgrass a Tsongkapa Box set. We had several conversations on FB Messenger. And once she wrote me about her Tsongkapa retreat. And I thought it was nice to gift her the box set. Of course she loved it and was expecting it. She even wrote me to remind me to send and also checking if I had sent. At that time I just thought she was an eager practitioner. But now…sorry to say that it is a shame that she would call Dorje Shugden the THING given that he was to protect the teachings of Lama Tsongkapa. I must say, hypocrisy looms… and not to mention ignorance despite having done a retreat. Oh well… I guess not everyone has the merits to take on the dharma in its truest meaning… I am still learning myself but I dare not ever threaten a monk nor insult one’s religious choices… I dare not. Karma indeed knows no boundries… om benza wiki bittana soha.
My, my, my what a bunch of keyboard-trigger-happy people. Wait… people? I do not think that people with any decency will conduct themselves in this manner. I would like to call them much more descriptive words but I have been taught well by Tsem Rinpoche and I respect the social media platforms and this wonderful blog especially. Thus, I shall regard these people as Haters.
I am most intrigued by Patricia Snodgrass’s comments and threats. How daring? I am very sure Patricia is reading this blog, as you can see these Haters are obsessed with anything and everything from Tsem Rinpoche. Behavioral patterns of fanatics.
So, Patricia Snodgrass, here is a list of questions for you:
1) Is your conduct and threats on Tsem Rinpoche’s life a result of your Tsongkapa retreat? I hope not because you would redefine who Tsongkapa is.
2) I stand to correct your claim that you followed Rinpoche for 8 months. You make it sound like you have a disciple-teacher relationship with Tsem Rinpoche. In fact, I believe that you have been a free lance writer for Kechara Media & Publications where you were paid for articles you worked on. A fee which you agreed upon. So, if you insist that you “followed” Rinpoche then I would say that it would be more accurate to say you were a “paid follower”. This then would kinda explain why you can now speak with such cruelty and hostility and threaten Rinpoche’s life.
3) Do you still have the Tsongkapa box set which I gave you and sent to you by courier? In case you are selective in what you want to keep and not, please be reminded that the box set was produced by Kechara and based on Rinpoche’s teachings. So, please do not be a hypocrite. It is not very becoming.
4) Are you being a sour-grape because I turned down to work with you in publishing your Tsongkapa Retreat journal? A journal you created using quotes from Rinpoche?
5) Do you have your chronology of events confused? If I recall correctly you returned to your Guru because you could not cope with whatever was going on in your life and NOT because you found out about Tsem Rinpoche practising Dorje Shugden.
We all have rights to practise what we want. Tsem Rinpoche has rights too. Haters out there, go find your peace some where, where ever. Stop following Kechara and Tsem Rinpoche. Most importantly, hear and read this clearly – STOP MAKING LIFE THREATENING STATEMENTS AGAINST TSEM RINPOCHE. There are laws for your conduct and you WILL be held accountable and responsible. We do not take your threats and statements lightly.
Go ahead Snodgrass, post more threats and insinuations. Go ahead and keep typing. You didn’t keep quiet and just ‘practice’ dharma. You are not interested in the Shugden issue. You ingratiated yourself into the hate Shugden groups so you can get friendly and get money/financial freebies. Everyone knows your motive. You got a lot from kechara as we read here, you got paid for work. You are not ashamed? Greedy. Now that you know Kechara is praying that THING as you like to put it, return the money and be clean!!
Why take money from a group that prays to a Thing! You will regret every word and nastiness you posted. Remember something, don’t threaten people with the resources to get the law against you all the way!
Carol and group will NEVER SUPPORT YOU OR ANYONE financially. You pay for your big mouth. You used them and she used you. Let’s see what happens. Everyday of silence can mean something is happening and it will blow up and you will deal with the law. Cyber threats of murder is illegal!
Dear Tongkor,
As much as I can feel your sentiment and frustration, I would really ask that your expressions be toned down. Yes, we do allow freedom of speech and expression, respectfully please.
Also, on social media Kechara has been baselessly accused of using the law to “intimidate” people as such unless you have heard directly from the legal counsel of Kechara on what measures we are taking, it is my advise that you kindly stop making all this legal statements which can fuel another false conversation about Kechara. I think that we have had enough threats recently. I hope you understand. Thank you.
I feel very frustrating when reading all these criticism to our guru and Kechara because whatever thing however we want to practice which deity and lineage is our choice everyone has religion freedom so I think is not right to criticize or in this case life treatening this is so wrong no enthical conduct at all no matter what others said I will stand firmly with DS practice and will not give up my guru because it is genuine and pure.
Why is it that Kecharians didn’t write vulgar and threatening replies to those people who wrote such comments? It’s because Tsem Rinpoche taught us well, that if we were to retaliate in such unbecoming ways then we’re not practicing the dharma. Rinpoche also said we shouldn’t bring ourselves to the level of such people because we know a little bit more dharma than them and we should practice the dharma a little bit better. Not to say Kecharians are great dharma practitioners but it’s during times like this that we should do our best to practice. But having said that it doesn’t mean we just sit by and let such people continue with their barrage of obscenities. When an animal is cornered, it fights back to defend itself.
My personal opinion is that such people really don’t have a life. Just wasting their life away writing obscenities from their hatred. Forming groups and spend their time online bashing others. But the odd thing is most of these people never attended dharma teachings by Rinpoche or have never met Rinpoche in person. Then why so much hatred? Could it be some of them wanted to get attention from others in the same group? So that later they may slip in personal hints and requests like maybe
“Oh, my old battered car has conked and I can’t move around to go to work, to go buy sundries, to go attend dharma classes.”
Or
“My cell phone died and I have no means of communication with my family, my colleagues, my friends.”
Or
“My B&W TV since the 60s finally seen it’s better days. How I wish I could own one colored flat screen 50″ TV so I can watch my favorite programs.”
I have read of such comments by some people on social media because these people use social media as a portal to solicit funds for their personal use.
Which is okay but some of these people turned violent with their speeches and writing, and may turn physically violent when they didn’t get what they wanted. Or when donations and sympathies stopped.
The desire of such people is so strong to be recognised and accepted. The greed for material things so strong. Wanting to be right because their ego said so. All from ignorance.
All these hatred, segregation, disparity, infringement on human rights and religious freedom escalated because the Tibetan government said that Dorje Shugden is a demon and His practice is banned.
How long more will the world continue to watch this drama? It would greatly alleviate the plight and suffering of innocent people who believe in Dorje Shugden if some human right activist group speak up. And some leaders in the government of independent nations speak up.
OM Mani Padme Hung and many Ni to such people for it is said that “Ni” purifies passion/desire in the human realm.
The threats reminded me what happened in 1940s in USA, the African-Americans were discriminated at that time. Now what happened to the DS practitioners now are similar. Violence towards the DS practitioners were supported and done by the authorities. many people have been brain washed due to lack of knowledge about DS and many acted violence out of ignorance without looking in deeper. Many were paid to react violently and attack DS lamas, Geshe, Dharma center, monks, nun and practitioners.
For those who called themselves anti-shugden or pro-Dalai Lama, If you truly so, please do not put down and misrepresent their own Guru by reacting this way. As Dalai Lama is the Chenrezig on earth and He is promoting world peace. I am sure He will not like to see this happening. Please stop all these violence and threat statements now.
Thank you Datuk May for protecting our Guru from these people.
just my opinion, i think kechara chose a very wrong timing to promote the teachings of Dorje Shudgden. The ban had just been impose not long, public dont even have enough time to contemplate about the ban and its rational.
and then suddenly kechara promotes Shugden teachings in full force. why cant it wait?
kechara has been promoting much about Dharmapala Setrap before that, its efficacious and everything. and just in a blink of an eye. its all about Shugden. this also makes a total layman like me to think.. What happen to Setrap? has it been replaced and deserted?
Whatsmore, Dorje Shugden is said to be a powerful and compassionate being right? so why is everyone losing their cool over some mere threats? i mean, practitioners of Dorje shugden is definitely gonna be protected by that deity right? i was told that Dorje Shugden can avert accidents and mis fortunes. so… why not have faith in Dorje Shugden that he’ll protect us?
im abit confuse as well. i heard tibetan deities can talk through a human medium? why not just ask other deities about the true nature of Dorje Shugden, its history and etc. problem solve right?
Many tried to kill Buddha Shakyamuni when he was alive too, worst he doesnt have any internet to know about the upcoming threats on him. but he kept his cool, i like him. He pacify his enemies with the truth & compassion.
Like wise, i think H.E. Tsem Rinpoche should keep his cool too. i have faith in him. =)
I am totally shocked at what you wrote. This is like saying rape victims deserve it cos of what they chose to wear or that people sleeve to be robbed because they display their wealth.
From what I understand of Kechara’s site Dorje Setrab is still there and Shugden is another deity that those who choose may worship. I personally don’t worship Shugden but it doesn’t mean I condone threats or that Tsem ‘deserves it’.
i cant find it that i ever wrote that Tsem Rinpoche deserve the threats… i cant understand why are u shocked too… im sorry.
Strange way to think. If someone were to threaten you, would you keep cool and think if your karma is such so be it, or do you take precautions? The focus should not be what Tsem Rinpoche should or should not have done. Under any circumstances it is wrong to threaten harm especially when it’s known that people have actually been harmed because if their faith in Dorje Shugden. If Dorje Shugden is being promoted now it’s probably because there are people who need the practice badly. It’s known to be the most effective practice of this time
nobody says if someone threatens you and one should do nothing.
threatening another person has always been wrong i think..
im just unsure about the benefit of telling the public that someone is being threaten would solve a thing. Because me and a few friends thought Tsem Rinpoche is panicking now, and we were asking each other these questions.
im not here to tell who and what should be done… im just here to seek some clarification. thx for the explanation anyways!
PS: keep cool, does not mean ‘do nothing’
Sorry, you mean it will bring disbenefits more? I think Rinpoche is letting people know that there are individuals going to great length to cause harm to himself and practitioners. This is not a small matter as it is individual right for their belief/practice and respect for their belief/practice.
Keeping quiet is allowing these individuals continue on preying on others. It is bullying, in this case cyber bullying. When people cannot discuss or debate but resort to verbal abuses and threats it becomes 1a one-sided thing. If one can tolerate such behaviour it says how much we value being ‘victimized’.
Dear Minnie,
The decision to be open with our practice was unanimously agreed by the Board of Directors of Kechara in consideration of Rinpoche’s Guru’s instruction. We are following the wisdom and clairvoyance of Rinpoche’s Guru and I think we are in no position to judge when it is right or wrong to come out. We follow that decision and its not good to make judgement based on our limited knowledge and understanding. In the end, what may seem to be bleak in the beginning may turn out to be something beneficial later.
The backlash we received for coming out is wrong because no one has the right to judge or decide for us what or who we can pray to. This is not the middle ages of religious persecution. This is the age of freedom of religious and human rights. I am sure you must agree with this. If people do not agree with the practice or Rinpoche’s or Kechara’s decision, please do not come onto our online platforms. Go somewhere else. Leave us alone and please do not hurl abuse and threats at us. This is un-Buddhist and illegal actually.
Setrap is the protector of Gaden Shartse and Kechara House. But Dorje Shugden is Rinpoche’s personal practice and they are actually interconnected. Since the decision, we have instituted the practice of Setrap and Dorje Shugden to be done simultaneously in Kechara House. For the individual, there is no need to practice either but many students of Rinpoche had embraced Dorje Shugden as the practice is extremely beneficial, swift and in line with our lineage.
yes david! i do agree on what you said about religion freedom.
however i disagree alittle about disbeliever to not come onto the online platforms, leaving you guys alone and sort.
To care for another being is human nature, i guess they (haters) are being compassionate in a way (but deluded) too because they are worry that the society will become bad by Dorje’s teachings.
Because from what we see, when people hurled insults at Dorje’s teaching, and then someone insults them back… its like the circle is never ending.
its like trying to put fire out with fire… i think.
i think there has to be some way where Dorje’s haters will one day see that “oh, so this is how Dorje Shugden’s practitioner reply, with truth & compassion, and i want to be like them”
because theres a few case, when a few of my friends ask something, and we receive not very friendly replies…
anyways thx for the explanations david! sry to take your time!
Dear Minnie,
I am sorry but I don’t see how anti-Shugden people coming onto our platform to comment is compassionate because they are vulgar, rude and do not engage in discussion but only want to shove their rhetoric down our throats. I fail to see how this is compassion. If they do come on at all, please be polite, sensible and never belittle the beliefs of the owner of the platforms that you are on. To be honest, we cannot stop anyone from posting anything but there must be some sort of self-restraint considering we call ourselves Buddhists. It’s a shame really…
Dear Pastor David and Minnie,
It is evidently the sad truth that we cannot stop people from posting what they want these days on social media. The freedom of speech applies and also abused. Sigh… However, w do want to uphold decency and respect here on this blog at least.
Are you okay with people shouting in your face and questioning your intelligence with your choice of education, career, spouse?
There are proper and improper behaviours and how to respect. Why the need to condemn others’ spiritual belief? Is the person’s rule of spiritual belief is to ‘condemn’ and ‘put down’ others? I doubt religions advise their devotees these sort of behavior. It is personal attack out of hatred.
Hi Minnie, thanks for the comment and concern.
The points you have presented here, the logic should be the other way round. Below are my thoughts to share with you:
1. The ban had been imposed since 1996 and it is almost 20 years already.
2. It is not that the public have no enough TIME to contemplate, it is the public have no enough INFORMATION, understanding of the issue and history and the core of Tibetan Buddhism teachings to contemplate as it has been always the anti-DS information are the “mainstream”. Those who practice Dorje Shugden is the one always being put down/discriminated for their belief and most of them have very limited resources or abilities to provide those information and they don’t even have the opportunity and medium to speak up for themselves. This is the proof of how anti-DS people are against Dorje Shugden practitioners, only on the cyberspace: https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/dorje-shugden/will-the-dalai-lama-agree-with-this.html
3. By us speaking up about Dorje Shugden, it is not just for PROMOTING Dorje Shugden, it is more on speaking up about the issue and providing/sharing people the information to understand better. Everyone has the right and freedom to practice what they want, why speaking up about Dorje Shugden is something wrong? It is the very right that everyone has. Because people will create problems when we speak up so we don’t speak up and keep silence with the pain and discrimination towards millions of other Dorje Shugden practitioners out there? This is not compassion and wise too. In fact we should ask this question to ourselves: Why do those who hate Dorje Shugden have the right to put down/discriminate Shugden people’s belief? Why it is OK for them to say bad things about Shugden’s people belief and hurt Shugden people in any way is OK? And when it comes to Shugden people speaking up for their right and belief, it is not OK because it will attract attacks and problems? No matter Shugden people speaking up or not, the attacks are there, the discrimination is there. So the problem is not on the Shugden people.
4. The example of Shakyamuni, I like it a lot and I agree with you. Buddha pacify his enemies with the truth & compassion. In this case, our Guru Tsem Rinpoche is doing the same. By speaking up and sharing information/history/thoughts about Dorje Shugden, it is a way to allow people to think and see this issue with more different angles. Rinpoche speaks up peacefully, speak with knowledge and logic not speaking from anger at all if you read Rinpoche’s article carefully. And Rinpoche compassionately accept all the attacks/criticism/vulgar words because of this Dorje Shugden issue. What you’ve seen here is just the tip of the iceberg. This post is not to hurt anyone, but Rinpoche uses himself as an example to let the world see, what Dorje Shugden’s practitioners have to go through and what they have gone through. It is to let people know there is this kind of problems are exist and we should take this seriously. We are speaking up the truth, that is all what we want, and it is our right to speak up.
Above are my thought to share with you and all other readers here. I wish you well and nice to see you here. 🙂
thank you Abby! its been a delightful experience to receive such amazing and ‘normal’ reply! thank you for the enlightenment!! 😀
You are most welcome Minnie. 🙂
Dear Minnie,
I think it’s really nice that you ask these questions here as there are perhaps many that are not very clear about the issue as well.
First and foremost, the ban on Dorje Shugden have been enforced since the year 1996. It has been close to 20 years since the ban was enforced, so it is not something recent.
The practice of Dorje Shugden have been practiced within the gelug tradition (and also Sakya and some Nyigmas) for the last 400 years. All the great lineage lamas in our tradition have been practicing this Dharma Protector.
Every practice offered in Kechara are based on authentic sources, and because this practice have been around and have benefited many people, it is only wise for a Dharma centre to provide such practice to our members… rather than hiding in fear. In fact, the very fact that we have to hide shows the discrimination and the ban. But as I mentioned earlier… the BODs of Kechara have no fears of getting bad backlash for practicing Dorje Shugden because as a Dharma centre, we must provide what is best for our members, and not worry about how it would ‘damage’ our ‘reputation’. In this way, I found the BODs very kind… that they are willing to risk so much for the benefit of others.
The very fact that we are told to ‘wait’ or not promote this practice is a clear sign of discrimination that is imposed on Dorje Shugden practitioners. Why does the CTA’s political game affect us Malaysians… that is always something I wonder. And the main problem is, many others allow the CTA to indirectly use them as tools, for the CTA’s own gain. I have no fear in saying this, my country protects me as I am innocent and have done nothing wrong except practice my religion openly.
If you have been to our Kechara House for Dharmapala Pujas, you would clearly know that Setrap is still our Dharma Protector as the pujas consists of both. This is not something new created by us, but originally before the ban came about, Gashar Monastery would conduct Setrap and Dorje Shugden pujas together… now of course, only Shar Gaden Monastery upholds this tradition that was passed down by our lineage masters.
Also, to answer your question, yes Dorje Shugden is powerful and can help us in many ways. But just because one is protected does not mean we should stand in the middle of the road and hope we won’t be knocked down by a car. The same with this situation, it is obvious that Rinpoche, our Guru is under the line of fire. And there are considerable concern as many Dorje Shugden practicing Lamas have tragedies and physical harm befall them. As students, how can we not make a statement in protection of our Guru? How can protecting our Guru be something wrong? Just like how can practicing Dorje Shugden be wrong, when we also practice the Lamrim, Lojong and other Buddhist practices as recommended by Lama Tsongkhapa? How?
Regarding your question on oracles, do watch some videos on Dorje Shugden oracles and you will quickly understand why Dorje Shugden is accepted by the pantheon of deities. The easiest is… through the same Oracle, Lord Setrap too will enter the oracle and whatever advice that Dorje Shugden has given he will say ‘Do as he (Dorje Shugden) says’. And we all know Lord Setrap is Amitabha. Also, just to point out, there is a difference between a medium and an oracle. A medium is usually those that channel lower beings like spirits and gods just like in Taoism. But an Oracle, they are supreme as they can be the vessel of Enlightened Dharmapalas such as Setrap and Dorje Shugden.
I’m glad to hear that you have faith in Rinpoche. No one should be questioned or told how they should or should not practice their beliefs. Rinpoche, like many other Dorje Shugden lamas have been the victim of this prosecution. Rinpoche receives so much troubles and yet, all Rinpoche have ever done is try to reason with people through peaceful methods which resulted in many dialogue based articles that Rinpoche have tirelessly wrote, in hope that people will come to understand the insanity of this ban on Dorje Shugden and worst still… the treatment that DS practitioners have to go through.
Please do read the articles in this section: https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/category/dorje-shugden
I know you mean no harm and just unsure of what’s happening. It must be a shock to know that people are after Rinpoche’s life. But read those articles that Rinpoche have published… and you will understand.
Wishing you great spiritual attainments,
Sarah
Thank you so much Sarah. i really understand a lot more deeper already thanks to you!!
i find it really scary sometimes to be associated with Kechara people. because some people there reacted so paranoid and angry when i have some questions in mind… its like asking me to accept blind faith without being able to ask questions…
but now that i found out kechara has people like you, this has grant me alot more courage to step closer into Dharma and Kechara. Thank you Sarah. =)
Dear Minnie,
I too was new to it not too long ago, so I can understand your confusion. I’m glad that you have found some understanding regarding the issue =)
Blind faith is not something we practice lol… in fact in Buddhism we are thought to question everything. Rinpoche always encourage us to ask questions as that is a form of learning and Rinpoche also encourages us students to think and not just hope to be spoon-fed… not only because it is beneficial in terms of secular life, but spiritually it cultivates wisdom and deep understanding. Because there are many things in spirituality, even if we were given the answer, but if we do not have the wisdom and clarity, we can never understand it… not because we are lacking in intelligence, but the karmic obscuration to something good is too strong.
For example, when Kyabje Pabongka Dorjechang learnt under his holy guru Tagpu Pemavajra; it was said that Kyabje Pabongka Dorjechang was given just one topic to meditate on each time he met his Guru. After examining and meditating on the topic in countless angles and for weeks or months, and eventually gaining realization through wisdom on the given topic. But of course, Pabongka Rinpoche was a highly realized Lama and an incredible attained being… I can imagine if I was given just one of the topic to meditate on, even after 10 lifetimes I would not get perfect understanding hahaha!
Rinpoche’s blog is a platform for all of us to learn the Dharma. I’m glad to hear that you wish to come closer to Dharma! A wonderful aspiration. But if I may say, come to the Dharma, not because of the people, but because you recognize the value of the Dharma 😉 That way, it doesn’t matter if the people around us are rude, bad, ugly, fat, pretty, nice, etc or if our personal life is a mess or obstacle filled… we will still go back to learn the Dharma because we know it’s value.
Hope to see you more on the blog!
Best wishes,
Sarah
Hi Minnie,
You are entitled to your opinion, as we are entitled to ours but it crosses the line when people make death threats because of what you believe in.
Let me give you an example so this is very relevant and clear. You have just left a comment on Rinpoche’s blog. How would you appreciate it if I started threatening you now, just because of the comment you left? For Shugden practitioners, it’s as simple and innocent as that – we like Shugden, we say we like Shugden and suddenly because of that, hundreds of people are harassing us on a constant and daily basis.
That is what it is like for Rinpoche and other Shugden lamas and practitioners around the world (https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/dorje-shugden/will-the-dalai-lama-agree-with-this.html).
So if you believe that 18 years of a ban is not long, then you are very mistaken because it is 18 years of harassment, threats, vulgarities and violence. And the very fact you feel there is ‘wrong timing’ to talk about Shugden is BECAUSE of the ban. The ban has made the last 18 years ‘wrong timing’ to talk about Dorje Shugden.
No, Setrap has not been replaced or deserted but if for 18 years you’ve been told your practice is wrong and you’ve been told to keep your practice quiet, wouldn’t you relish the freedom to be able to speak openly about it once given permission?
Your comment also assumes that there’s no such thing as karma. If lamas could not be hurt, then theoretically the Dalai Lama and everyone else can live forever and never suffer sickness, old age and death because of their respective Protector deities.
Perhaps I misinterpreted your comment but please do not make light of the death threats Rinpoche is receiving. When you receive hundreds of vulgar and violent messages every day, and people threaten you with death because of your beliefs, then perhaps you have a basis to request Rinpoche to “keep his cool”. Until then, you appear to be blaming the victim for having beliefs, instead of the perpetrators / aggressors for making the threats.
Here’s an alternative thought/perspective for you – instead of asking Rinpoche to calm down, why not request those who are saying nasty things to practice Buddhism and watch their speech? 🙂
Sorry Pastor, im not sure if its me. but when i read your reply, it feels like you’re uttering those exact words to me, but at the same time you’re strangling me with your left hand, and slapping me with your right hand.
im afraid to seek other clarification because im afraid to offend you.
we are unfamiliar to buddhism, Kechara and especially Dorje Shugden. and such way of replying just push us away even more. Even though we know the truth, it just somehow pushes us away further.
and my niece sometimes asked questions here too, im abit worried.
Anyways, thank you for taking time to explanation dear pastor. Appreciate it.
I am sorry you feel that way but you do not have to know about Kechara, Dorje Shugden and Buddhism to know that telling someone to “keep their cool” when a death threat has been made against them will not be appreciated by his friends.
As I said, if you left a simple comment and then felt that people harassed you after just for your opinion, that is the exact same way Shugden people feel every single day. Regardless of how or what they believe, no one deserves harassment for that or be told they will not live to see the end of the year. Try to empathize with that fear instead of asking them to “keep their cool” 🙂
Dear Minnie,
The motivation behind sharing first hand information about the aggression and threats to life of Dorje Shugden practitioners is to let more people know the truth about the Dorje Shugden’s ban as well as the suffering of millions as a result of the ban. Rinpoche has explained that a Protector practice is traditionally NOT announced or made public knowledge. However, the pain experienced by Dorje Shugden practitioners as well as the lack of channel to share their story prompted Rinpoche and his students to share more information about what is happening within the Tibetan and Monastic communities. In fact, it is scary that the discrimination is already spreading to our region of South East Asia (Singapore and Malaysia in specific) where sign boards are put up, disallowing Dorje Shugden practitioners to enter centers and spaces….which we know are against the constitution of these countries.
Setrap is an enlightened protector and my niece loves him very much…probably from past life imprints 🙂 However, we understand that Dorje Shugden is an enlightened protector who has taken on a worldly form more recently (about 400 years back), causing him to have closer karmic affinity to some practitioners. As we are in the Kaliyuga age, why not have another source of support for our dharma journey? Additionally, we are still practicing Setrap in Kechara where every Monday we have the Dharmapala Puja that propitiates both Setrap and Dorje Shugden.
As to why we are informing people about Dorje Shugden now is because: if we can do something to help reduce and relief the suffering of practitioners who are ostracized, threatened and beaten, why wait? Additionally, We are all in samsara, and as a Dharma center, it is our goal to provide dharma knowledge and practice that can offer spiritual benefits to all members.
As there are some of us who prefer not to cross path with Dorje Shugden, there are just as many who wants to learn more about him so that they are able to progress their practice with understanding. This is religious freedom and respect.
Thank you Li Kheng, i find so much meaningful information from your reply! i cant explain wonderful that this small little reply makes so much sense to me. hope it benefits the other readers as well!
thankyou =)
Dear Minnie,
I hope that with the explanations provided you have a clearer understanding of the situation. Should you have anymore questions please do raise them as this is a place to learn. Plus, your questions may help others to understand deeper as well. We are all ignorant in some way, and to ask and learn is the best way to knowledge and shed the darkness of ignorance. 🙂
Thank you Li Kim, i think i already have the answers that i need to know. its nice to see the many helpful people around here =)
Dear Minnie,
Good to know 🙂
There are other blog articles which are also very interesting and we can learn a lot from Tsem Rinpoche’s teachings. Do feel free and “roam” around this blog and check out more articles. Happy Reading!
Threats like this should never be taken lightly. Patricia Snodgrass must know of someone out there plotting to hurt Tsem Rinpoche just like how other Dorje Shugden practitioners are hurt or killed. And the Central Tibetan Administration (Tibetan Govt in Exile) claims there is no ban and ostracization of Dorje Shugden practitioners.
None of us in Kechara goes on a crusade forcing others to do Dorje Shugden’s practice. So why is our guru given a death threat? What has he done that deserves to be killed? In democratic countries like Malaysia, we have religious freedom. Any form of disharmony, violence and incitement of it due to religious intolerance is against the Malaysian law.
Who goes around condemning others of their religious belief? Just because I don’t subscribe to the Christian and Muslim faith, for example, do I have the right to make nasty remarks and death threats to their spiritual leaders and practitioners? This is discrimination and it is illegal. I doubt HH the Dalai Lama would approve of their behavior and yet they claim to be followers of the Dalai Lama.
As a member of Kechara’s Board of Directors and on behalf of Tsem Rinpoche’s students, we will not tolerate such threats of violence. We will continue to record all threats made to Tsem Rinpoche.
This is a threat and one that wants another person dead as explicitly and implicitly agreed upon by a group of people on social media. How totally unbecoming of these individuals who call themselves Buddhists! Oh wait… are they still Buddhists having had so much of anger and hatred for the monks, Dharma centres and community that they once belonged to. I don’t know if this is called the “sour grape syndrome” or not but I am in no position to judge them for the religious choices they make. However, their aggressive conduct and negative speech are not something that should be tolerated regardless of the spiritual decisions they choose. They don’t have to practice Dorje Shugden or even be a Buddhist ever again, but to issue a threat of life against my Guru, H.E. Tsem Rinpoche who has absolutely done nothing to hurt them except to openly practice Dorje Shugden is simply wrong. Seriously, what has Dorje Shugden done to them that are so adverse that they show so much of disrespect for this enlightened protector? It is like being bullied for choosing to wear blue. It is that ridiculous. With all due respect, I always believed in His Holiness the Dalai Lama and have very high regards for him despite the fact he requested for Dorje Shugden practitioners to not attend his teachings. I have always, always given the benefit of the doubt that His Holiness did not issue a ban. It was just a request.
But right now, I have changed my mind. There is a ban and a cruel one. Not because the Dalai Lama said it, but based on the actions, intentions and motivations of those who claim to be supporters of His Holiness, those who are protecting the freedom of Tibet and those who want the Dalai Lama to live long, their violent threats have given rise to an oppressive ban. The CTA hit list (yes, the Tibetan Government-in-Exile compiled a list of targeted prime Dorje Shugden practitioners and activists) can perhaps be viewed as a spring board to generate further dire consequences such as to terminate the life of a high lama by end of this year!
Now, we know very well that some of the individuals from the social media group have received benefits and kindness from H.E. Tsem Rinpoche as they have admittedly so. And in the same breath to wish for Rinpoche’s passing is terrible beyond imagination. What has the world become? Being persecuted for one’s belief is an utter breach of human rights. I don’t even need to elaborate in length how that is not acceptable. To take this matter outside the scope of religion, it is very similar to bullying a person based on any form of prejudice and no one’s life should be threatened whether you support what his choices are especially when his choice does not affect you. By behaving in such a fashion, you only destroy the image, activity and progress of the one you claim to be a follower of – His Holiness the Dalai Lama, unless your reasons for attacking H.E. Tsem Rinpoche and fellow Dorje Shugden practitioners are encouraged by other mysterious motives, something I do not hope to probe and know further. However, suffice it to say, whatever your intentions are, a threat is a threat and it is wrong.
What disturbs me more is not what has been said, but what has been left unsaid. If they really have an issue with H.E. Tsem Tulku Rinpoche then why do they continue to view his blog, youtube videos, twitter, and facebook?? It’s like they have a strong attachment to such things with the sole purpose of gaining ammunition to harm another. I wish they would just stick with their own guru, center and tradition and stop causing harm. If one looks at this action closely you can tell it’s a form of Malice. This disturbs me, and I pray they one day overcome it. I really wish they would stop creating Divisive, Offensive, and Senseless Speech. I’m sure they have other things to do in their spare time that they could pursue. Try out other endevours that have nothing to do with H. E. or Kechara, yet they seem to cycle back to these actions, like a self created samsara of their own making. It’s really a shame and a waste of time going out of your way to keep tabs on someone for the sole purpose of harming later. A piety really, as they could take all that energy and direct it towards their own spiritual growth. I haven’t known Rinpoche for very long but I have received advice from him. I asked, listened, and applied that advice, and truly things have turned out for the better. If I had really suspected anything mentioned to be unsual, or harmful I would question. Then again I question everything even if I don’t voice questions, I still contemplate quietly, and meditate. Even Buddha himself gave a speech in the Kalama Sutta regarding this:
“Now, Kalamas, don’t go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, ‘This contemplative is our teacher.’ When you know for yourselves that, ‘These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness’ — then you should enter & remain in them.” – So truly I hope they stop creating negative actions as the karmic repercussions will come back on them. Om mani padme hum
Yes Bradley, I can’t agree with you more. It does not make any sense why they keep coming back again, to find things that upset them, that annoy them and that lead them to criticise.
Do they think their behaviour and their threats will convince us to give up the practice? At what point do they demonstrate any behaviour we wish to emulate? The fact they are so easily disturbed by someone else’s beliefs and practices, tells you the state of their own and when that is the state of their practice, with no attainments to speak of, I am sorry but I wish to have no part in it.
Many have often wronged that Dorje Shugden is a spirit practice which does not conform to traditional Buddhist practice, but when you see such violence of speech being hurled at practitioners who are doing their practice, i think we need to defend ourselves here.
I remembered that Rinpoche taught us about compassion is not about letting others attack you but to protect ourselves in such cases.
thank you Bradley for caring, these words of logic quoted from the Buddha’s own teachings hold weight in practitioners like myself
我這一生人最看不起一種人，就是那種不懂得感恩图報的傢伙！哼！不管是誰都好，如果你不會感恩曾經照顧過你的人；反而去不停地攻擊對方，這種人堪稱小人也。自古以來，小人在暗地裡所做的破壞，無計其數。最後他們甚麼也得不到，只得個臭名遠播，可怜啊！
我不知道這些人到底有沒有在修行，因為身為佛教徒的我們都相信，人身攻擊一位德高望重的喇嘛，肯定會為自己製造大量恶業，讓自己更加深陷如黑洞般恶業中，永遠無法爬起來。
我真的希望這些人可以反省自己今天所做的一切和造成的傷害及破壞。身為一位處處為人利益著想的金刚上師尊貴的詹仁波切，並不會被傷害，反而這些不負責人的言語會製造很大的困擾或疑惑予初修習佛法者或一些不知情的外圍修法者。如果這樣傷害的語言造成了他們對這位上師產生猜疑心、對佛法不再有強烈的信念、對護法修持失去信心、抑或因而離開佛法； 斷了此人的慧命，造謠者或破壞的人，將會因此為自己製造了多少的恶業呢。。。請自己計算吧！
這世界已經夠凌亂了，人心也是支離破碎的；所以我們應該全力去支持渾身散發正能量的人，扶助他那顆純淨如水晶般的發心，讓他安心地去造福人群；無忱地常轉法輪，不要再被個人的三毒荼毒去傷害他；因為他從來就不曾傷害過你們。
我身為詹仁波切的其中一位愚弟子，衷心祈禱這些傷害仁波切的人，趕緊收口閉嘴；少造業，多修福，多修行消恶業。
With so much misunderstanding, it is no surprise the anti-Dorje Shugden people are threatening the Shugden practitioners, but hinting someone to take action and kill a High Lama, that is something beyond believe especially it comes from someone who claimed to be a Dharma practitioners. Worse still, many just stand and watch, and some even “Like”.
If you are the guru for these students, would you endorse such hostility towards others? What kind of Buddhist teaching would encourage people to kill others especially killing sangha member? Do you really think encourage others to kill would bring you to enlightenment? Why do we need a “No Killing” in our refuge vow?
There are so much hatred towards the Shugden practitioners, and sad to say, this come from the education of CTA (Central Tibetan Administration) who started the segregation and discrimination. To resolve this issue, CTA must undo what they have done and instil unity instead of segregation.
I pray those who spread hatred towards others can stop because it is not bringing any peace to themselves.
It is indeed that misinformation and blind faith have led people to behave in this manner. Without proper knowledge, there would be no basis for common sense. Without common sense, there’s no mutual respect for each other in the general sense of the word. Let alone the people who claim they practice compassion and pray for world peace when they cannot accept people from their own backyard. I hope these violence will cease!
What has Rinpoche done do deserve this kind of brutal and pre-meditated action to Kill a High Lama, who has benefitted many people in Malaysia and abroad??
This is absolutely un-Buddhist of these people who claim to be a Holy Schmoly Buddhist practitioner towarda others religions and even practitice!! WHere is the compassion and tolerance that they claim to be inspired?
Everyone can see how the Ban of Dorje Shugden which had not only created split in Buddhism because of wrong accusation, but worst is they threaten your life because you are a practitioner. DId Dorje Shugden harm them personally?
NO! BUT THEY HARM THEMSELF EMOTIONALLY BECAUSE THEY DENY SHUGDEN PRACTICE!
Dear Frederick,
These are valid questions to ask these people whom have hurled such harmful words against Rinpoche and our works. But there’s a much more effective means to help. We can always highlight what great deeds our Guru has done for us and let the whole world know. This will help lessen all these negative talks because we speak the truth.
PJJ
Dear Pastor Jay Jae,
Thank you for your kind advice, yes Rinpoche has benefited so many lives and this are concrete proof of Rinpoche kindness and compassion that we should highlight, and these Truth and compassion speaks for itself.
Thank you,
Frederick Law
It truly disturbs me to see that the very person/people who was/were previously on the receiving end of Rinpoche’s kindness are now on the total opposite end, spewing such hateful things and even threats. I can’t understand why do these people have so much hateful things to say about Rinpoche. They profess to be Buddhists (some even Dharma teachers) but their actions indicate the total opposite. I am shocked at how harsh and divisive their speech have become.
I pray for Rinpoche’s safety and that these people will find the light to lead them out of their foggy ignorant existence. I will stand by Rinpoche.
OM BENZA WIKI BITANA SOHA.
Dear Sharon,
HE Tsem Rinpoche has cared for us in many ways we all cannot describe in words. How can kindness be repaid with so much hatred and even threats to Rinpoche’s life!
Prayers for Rinpoche’s safety is a given but we must also put our prayers into action by being on the alert for such similar cases to protect Rinpoche’s work. Imagine 20 over years of Dharma work in Malaysia will go down the drain if we let these inconsiderate people online back slash our Lama. We are not being rude or vulgar, we are pointing out the truth and exposing the untruth. Be kind always in showing what others have done to destroy our Lama’s work, this is a form of protection we can do to help keep Rinpoche’s and Kechara’s work safe into future generations.
PJJ
If people sat down and learned about Dorje Shugden they wouldnt fear him. All hatred comes from ignorance. H.H the Dalai lama has written prayer to Dorje Shugden. Education is the cure for ignorance and Tsem Rinpoche has tried his best to bring knowledge about Dorje to the general public.
That doesn’t mean everyone must practice Dorje Shugden, but they should be informed before they judge. What looks like a snake coiled in the back of a dark room may turn out to just be a rope if you turn the light on. Tolerance for all is a key Buddhist principal and no one can reach enlightenment without it. I am not a Christian, but that doesn’t give me a right to wish harm on them for not having Buddhist beliefs. In fact my beliefs as a buddhist say i must respect all religions.
Christians, jews, muslim, and every other religions of the world could care less abou Dorje Shugden. The only religions that have a hatred of him are a small part of our own religion of Buddhist. I feel they are using it as an excuse to segregate and hate while saying they are religious. The dalai lama himself would never command harm to a person. People read into what he said and turned it into a excuse to hate and cause violence.
So sad… Not only do I pray for the safety of my guru Tsem Rinpoche tonight,
But i also pray for the person responsible for threats. I don’t pray they do Dorje Shugden….I pray they learn to accept others beliefs without fear or hatred towards any other human beings.
I do not know who you are but you sound like a true spiritual practitioners from what you wrote: But i also pray for the person responsible for threats. I don’t pray they do Dorje Shugden….I pray they learn to accept others beliefs without fear or hatred towards any other human beings.
This is what Rinpoche does consistently and also teaches us to do, that is, we must not just pray for our loved ones but also those who hurt us. This is also one of the Boddhisattva vows hence in our visualization we always place our ‘enemies’ in front of us and our loved ones behind us.
Some people come into Dharma not to learn under a teacher but for wrong motives. Especially in an organisation as big as Kechara. These people see Kechara as their cash cow, meaning if they are in business they will use Kechara to expand their network as we have many members who are influential. If they are not doing well financially in their lives, they will try to mooch something from Kecharians. Then there are cases where some expect their teacher, in this case Tsem Rinpoche to bail them out from their mess may it be their relationship, marriage or again financially. Many reasons, these are just a few example. And when they do not get the response they expect, they show their true colour.
Death threats are taken seriously, including the authorities. A person may defend by saying that it is hear say but this is incitement. It’s an offence as it consists of persuading, encouraging and instigating so as to cause another to commit a crime. Especially in the social media platform because it has not boundaries. It will not be taken lightly by Kecharians.
I am no one special. I just watch many tsem youtube videos. It really hit home that their are no such things as enemy’s in this video of tsem’s
https://youtu.be/3tcFql-A5ZA
Listen in at 31:00 minutes on. By 37 minutes in you start to realize the only enemy in the world is yourself.
I do lama tsongkapa practice and i only have people standing behind me. The reason is i went thru my so called enemies one by one and said to myself “would i like to see this person in pain or dead” truthfully deep down i would not. As much as i may dislike them i have no evil feelings toward them. If i saw them bleeding on the street dying i would let go of my anger and i would help them.
Very few people are evil. Even mass murders in prison most of the time have remorse. I don’t live with worries about people scheming for my money because i have none. It is kind of a good feeling to have. The most people can steal from me is the $1.87 in my bank. In a way it’s a blessing to be broke.
I don’t envy a millionaire’s worries. I have met many a millionaire that are not half as happy as me. But dont listen to me, listen to Tsem. I’ve been in Buddhism half a year and he has been in it over 30+ years. Not to mention a direct lineage line. If i have any smarts at all its because of him.
Plus where i live 99.9% are Christians who could care less about if i am a Dorje Shugden practitioner. All in all i am pretty blessed.
Mr Anderson, thank you for posting a most well-thought out and convincing comment here.
You said that “If people sat down and learned about Dorje Shugden they wouldn’t fear him. All hatred comes from ignorance.”
You hit the nail on the head, when you said that. Yes, when people react in fear or hatred, they do so out of ignorance. Here in this case you’re right in saying that people, who so negatively criticise Tsem Rinpoche and even go on to issue death threats against him, are people who don’t truly know who Dorje Shugden is. Hence they don’t understand and deliberately ignore the fact that so many people continue to practice him. Instead, they just lash out and threaten a holy being like Tsem Rinpoche without any basis, except that he is practising Shugden, and that the Dalai Lama has banned this practice on the grounds that Shugden is a spirit.
But is he a spirit? If he were a spirit, why did the 14th Dalai Lama write a prayer and praise of Shugden , entitled “Melody of the Unceasing Vajra”, (you also pointed out this prayer that the 14th Dalai Lama had composed) where he praises Shugden as “the wisdom, compassion and power of infinite Buddhas” and as the “miraculously powerful Protector of Manjushri Tsongkhapa’s teachings!”
The 14th Dalai Lama wrote this! Later, he said he had “made a mistake”.
Dalai Lama, an emanation of Chenrezig, with the Dharmakaya of an enlightened being, cannot make mistakes, like us ordinary humans.
As you said, “Education is the best cure for ignorance”, and Tsem Rinpoche has strenuously worked to educate and bring the knowledge about Dorje Shugden to the general public to disabuse them of their wrong views. Take the blogpost on this blog – “The 14th Dalai Lama’s Prayer to Dorje Shugden”- where Tsem Rinpoche explains clearly why this prayer is clear evidence of Dalai Lama’s view of Shugden.
https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/dorje-shugden/the-14th-dalai-lamas-prayer-to-dorje-shugden.html
Yes, thank you Mr Anderson for your clearly laid out thoughts, which show a firm grasp of dharma .
Yes, everyone has a right to practice their own faith. As you say,it “doesn’t mean everyone must practice Dorje Shugden, but they should be informed before they judge”.
Thank you for supporting the view of tolerance and respect that Tsem Rinpoche and all Kecharians and his students hold: that everyone should be free to choose the religion or faith that they wish to practice, and which god they wish to worship, and, at the same time, everyone should respect others for their faiths and beliefs.
Dear Pastor Han Nee,
Thank you for your kind comments:) If I seem smart it is only because I say what my Guru taught me. All of the praise should go to him. If I were to say it it would be pointless. You viewed it as knowledge because it came from a man smarter than me.
I think if anyone were to watch these 2 dharma videos from Tsem they would no longer have any issues or fear of Dorje Shugden. If your scared of Dorje Shugden, Think he is the devil, or think he will kill the Dalai Lama please, please, please watch these two videos before you join any hate group against Tsem or Dorje Shugden.
If you take the time to watch them from the first second to the last and listen attentively you will be cured. The first video is one of my favorite dharma talks Tsem has done. It gives some background and dips into Dorje Shugden a little. Watch it first and then watch the second video which will sweep away any last wrong view you have.
https://youtu.be/70EI-dV1eVw
https://youtu.be/1GRrTKbmkSg
Hate is not dharma and the meaning of life is to help others. Long life to Lord Buddha, Long life to the Dalai Lama, and Long life to my beloved teacher Tsem Tulku Rinpoche. I prostrate to all 3 🙂
Thank you for your response. Yes,you are correct to say our Guru is the source of our dharma knowledge . Tsem Rinpoche:”Without the Guru there is no Dharma”. It is great that you are mindful all the time about this. May we, like you , always remember this.
I’m so sad for those who spew hatred.. Especially towards a sangha. The resultant karma would surely come back in the form of more suffering. It just doesnt make sense to bring on more suffering towards oneself on purpose and i do not know what they have gained from this. Do they feel more at peace with themselves after threatening someone ? Do they feel happier after cussing someone ? If the answer is yes, what kind of a person are you ? For that i feel sad for you. You are not making the bodhisattva’s job any easier.
it is not only sad but to know that people are sufferings because of their deluded or confused minds when such comments are mentioned..remember our refuge vows…”do not kill, no hurtful speech…so is there practice and application on what you learned or what you know and study is only “academic knowledge”.
Dear ng,
You are right that a Bodhisattva’s job is never easy. Being brave to tell the truth, to create awareness on the Dorje Shugden issue, getting all sorts of comments you can read here https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/dorje-shugden/will-the-dalai-lama-agree-with-this.html, yet, patiently, consistently, tirelessly explain and educate everyone is really a tough job no ordinary being will like.
In times like this, we get to see who Rinpoche really is, walking the talk and continue to do so regardless. As Rinpoche’s students, we cannot keep quiet when comments are made to disgrace our Guru who has work tirelessly, 24/7, for the benefits of others, especially when it is a life threatening one.
It is really very easy to sit in front of the keyboard and type whatever one likes, but please be aware that one must also be responsible for their words. Regardless how one explain his or hers words after that, as Buddhist, we know to always be mindful of our actions, speech and thoughts before they are being done. Any results follow, we have to own up to it, because we chose to say and act in a certain way. Therefore, no one should be blamed but ourselves.
We will continue to seek advice and take all necessary actions to protect the safety of our Guru.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts,
Pastor Adeline
Dear Ng,
I like your Dharmic viewpoint about this whole issue. I am glad someone saw it that way and it’s sad that many practitioners claim to be Buddhist but are taking this whole Shugden issue out of hand. They fail to see Rinpoche as an ordained member of the Sangha and they fail to see that since making offerings to a Sangha member, we generate merits and when we disparage a Sangha member, we create huge stores of negative karma of course.
The funny thing is that there is a monk and tulku in the WNTTAS group and he should know all these things but he goes on criticizing and leading others to do the same. What kind of karma does this person get? Perhaps, he thinks he is exempt from karma because he thinks Shugden is a spirit. This does not make sense! I think he should get it worse because he knows better than the rest. He should be the one leading people towards a reconciliation or not get involved at all. It doesn’t matter if he believe in Shugden or not because that does not change his monkhood, either way. So, his actions would come back harsher
I have been reading these comments with a lot of disappointment and disgust. Patricia’s behaviour and those of the others on the thread are no better than hate groups like the KKK. If you are from a religion or belief system that’s different to them, or you are a race they do not like, they spit on you, ostracise you and burn crosses on your lawn as a warning. And throughout history, they have done other things to violently express their displeasure, for example lynching and hanging people of colour.
What’s the difference between the KKK and these online hate groups? Very little difference. The KKK plot offline; these people plot online, wishing their targets to have violent ends, and pray for them to suffer for their beliefs. If anything were to happen to Rinpoche, then these online groups will be responsible because whatever plotting they have engaged in will have manifested into something real, just like the KKK. And these groups do all this under some misguided notion of ‘compassion’ whilst quoting sutras, sharing the Dalai Lama’s quotes, talking about love, light and positivity. I’m sorry but I find it all to be absolute rubbish – how can you spew hate in one breath, then pray for the benefit of all sentient beings when you sit on your meditation cushion? In what sutra did Shakyamuni ever say it was acceptable to pray for people to be harmed and killed for the sake of their beliefs?
No one deserves to be harmed, threatened or abused for their beliefs, and certainly not have death threats directed against them. Especially when some, like Patricia, have received advice from Rinpoche and many other patient Kecharians who have tolerated her mood swings and tantrums… If you don’t like what Rinpoche has to say, you do not have to keep reading it but you certainly do not have to plan for and announce Rinpoche’s imminent death.
To everyone who leaves hateful comments online, karma does not escape you simply because you have blocked us and we cannot see your comments, or because you hide behind an anonymous name and image. And what people should remember about the Internet is that once you put something up online, there’s a copy of it saved somewhere forever. And like the Internet, I may forgive but I DO NOT FORGET ESPECIALLY when you threaten my lama Tsem Tulku Rinpoche like this.
Age is no barrier. Here are 5 of the deadliest women in history aged from their early 40s to late 60s.
1. DOROTHEA PUENTE
http://murderpedia.org/female.P/p/puente-dorothea.htm
Murdered 3-9 victims through poisoning in her late 50s.
2. MIYUKI ISHIKAWA
http://murderpedia.org/female.I/i/ishikawa-miyuki.htm
Murdered >100 infants through neglect until her early 50s.
3. FAYE COPELAND
http://murderpedia.org/female.C/c/copeland-faye.htm
Murdered > 5 people in armed robberies when she was in her 60s
4. MARIE NOE
http://murderpedia.org/female.N/n/noe-marie.htm
Murdered 8 children by suffocation until her early 40s.
5. VELMA BARFIELD
http://murderpedia.org/female.B/b/barfield-velma.htm
The Death Row Granny murdered 5-7 victims with arsenic poisoning in her late 40s.
Max,
Yup! She’s no sweet old lady like she would like all of us to think. Just check out the so called apology that she wrote on her blog? It was just available for a short while before she made her blog for private viewing only. What’s the point to apologize when you are not even sincere about it? And if you actually read her apology, it was just 1 long justification of why she was so nasty. Till this day, she does not own up to what she had said.
Check out this meme from https://www.facebook.com/weneedtotalkaboutshugdentoday
All these problems because a gang of people won’t let a Rinpoche and his congregation practice their belief in their god? Even if there were no death threat it’s still wrong to malign someone because of their religion. I haven’t seen any law that says it’s a crime to practice one’s own religion and here we have a bunch of idiots acting like cyber terrorist to defame Rinpoche for no legitimate reason. I would encourage Kechara not only to file police reports against the death threat but also to pursue civil suits for defamation and harassment. It’s a clear case. It’s all monk Tongkor’s doing. They will go down in infamy for sure.
I absolutely agree with you. There is no law in free countries AGAINST the practice of any faith you believe in. But there are laws against cyber threats of DEATH. How dare Snodgrass threaten a Buddhist monk who has lived a life of peace! Snodgrass says she is concerned about Rinpoche’s life and is warning him out of care? That is just a pure lie. You want to warn Rinpoche, you send him or his students an email NOT ON A DORJE SHUGDEN HATE GROUP with a disrobed monk liked Siling Tongkor and a frustrated spinster ex-nun whose claim to fame is hatred. Gross. Siling gets money from this ex nun. The ex nun gets money from CTA. She doesn’t work or do anything but spends all day on the internet. She works for CTA because they contract people to spread their propaganda. What does Carol have against Shugden? Nothing. But she is a bitter old greying woman who wants revenge against NKT and CTA wants to shut down DS people. So what a ‘great’ marriage. CTA and Carol. But you know what? Let her rant and rave because VERY LITTLE PEOPLE PARTICIPATE OR ACTIVELY PARTICPATE ON HER PAGE.
Her page is not genuine because she only lets hateful people against Shugden get involved in their page. That is obvious. She does not want dialogue but only hatred and inciting hatred and murder. Now stupid Snodgrass fell for it and she will be the scapegoat. The judge should throw the book at Snodgrass and should be prosecuted for her threats.
It is none of Snodgrass’ business to interfere in what god Kechara chooses to worship. It’s nobody’s business. ‘
Kechara does not protest or defame Dalai Lama. If they did, prove it. Where? Kechara quietly practices their god and in their premises. You don’t like what they post on internet, then just block them BUT NOT THREATEN THEM.
Go ahead Snodgrass, post more threats and insinuations. Go ahead and keep typing. You didn’t keep quiet and just practice dharma. You are not interested in the Shugden issue. You ingratiated yourself into the hate Shugden groups so you can get friendly and get money/financial freebies. Everyone knows your motive. You got a lot from kechara as we read below, you got paid for work. You are not ashame? Greedy. Now that you know Kechara is praying that THING as you like to put it, return the money and be clean!!
Why take money from a group that prays to a Thing! You will regret every word and nastiness you posted. Remember something, don’t threaten people with the resources to get the law against you all the way!
Carol and group will NEVER SUPPORT YOU OR ANYONE financially. You pay for your big mouth. You used them and she used you. Let’s see what happens. Everyday of silence can mean something is happening and it will blow up and you will deal with the law. Cyber threats of murder is illegal! tick, tock, tick, tock….
THE FULL EXTENT OF THE LAW SHOULD BE CARRIED OUT AGAINST SNODGRASS.
Dear Tongkor,
I can see that you indeed feel strongly about this issue like many of us. And I could not agree more with what you have said about freedom to choose what religion Kechara and Tsem Rinpoche chooses to practise. And that those who hate Shugden and do not agree with what Kechara and Tsem Rinpoche post should just not read and even block us, but to threaten Tsem Rinpoche’s life is totally out of line and a crime. And may I add that when it reaches this kind of means, it is really not about religion anymore but fanaticism.
However, I have concerns of some other matters you have highlighted in your comment. You are making some strong allegations about Carol and her alleged collaboration with the CTA. Also, as much as you have complete distaste for what Patricia Snodgrass has done, you are also making some strong statements about her. Our Admin of this blog had previously posted and advised that as much as we feel strongly about the threats on Rinpoche’s life, we should still respect the space of this blog.
Based on what I am reading it also appears that you may have more information to substantiate your alleged claims. This blog cannot be implicated to condone baseless allegations. I request that you are responsible in what you are saying in your comments.